The cost of atheism
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27-08-2014, 10:20 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:12 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:08 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Ok, imagine this. You go away on a business trip and take a picture of your wife with you. You miss her greatly so you stare at it every day. When you get home you suit down with your wife, and you get the picture out and stare at it again. There is something wrong yeah?

The OT was pictures and preparation for Christ, when He comes then the pictures are not needed, and He superseded everything. He is the fulfilment. Its not cherry picking. The whole of the OT is about waiting for and preparing for the coming of Christ.
Is there any evidence outside of the NT (i.e independent evidence) that gives any credibility to the claim of his divinity?

What would it prove to you if there was? Would you become a christian?
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27-08-2014, 10:22 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:11 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:08 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Ok, imagine this. You go away on a business trip and take a picture of your wife with you. You miss her greatly so you stare at it every day. When you get home you suit down with your wife, and you get the picture out and stare at it again. There is something wrong yeah?

The OT was pictures and preparation for Christ, when He comes then the pictures are not needed, and He superseded everything. He is the fulfilment. Its not cherry picking. The whole of the OT is about waiting for and preparing for the coming of Christ.

Now take this same argument you just made here for your god and replace it with another god claim you do not buy and see if this argument still works for you.

Brian, I don't know how that is relevant when we are talking about the Bible? Do you want to talk about the Koran?
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27-08-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:20 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:12 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Is there any evidence outside of the NT (i.e independent evidence) that gives any credibility to the claim of his divinity?

What would it prove to you if there was? Would you become a christian?

No - because I don't believe the teachings of Jesus to be moral. But I would at least more satisfied as to the rationale of the choice to become one.


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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27-08-2014, 10:23 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:20 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:12 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Is there any evidence outside of the NT (i.e independent evidence) that gives any credibility to the claim of his divinity?

What would it prove to you if there was? Would you become a christian?

Hmm, I already posted the same thing twice in this thread, maybe I need to post it a third time for it to get read? Tongue

Then I'll get banned for spamming! Big Grin

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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27-08-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:18 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 08:48 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Secondly, on the issue of homosexuality, again why do you say that it constitutes moral advancement? It is obviously against nature, ...

To paraphrase Niels Bohr, "Einstein, quit telling nature what to do." Homosexuality in Nature.

That only moves it one step back from normative nature and dysfunctional or abnormal nature.
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27-08-2014, 10:26 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 06:59 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Hi all,

Brief disclosure, I am a christian but not here to get into bun fights. Been there, done that, not interested.

I do want to raise a point about the cost of atheism to the western world. In particular I live in the UK, but I'm sure this holds true for the US etc.

I do not think that atheism ever has a chance of winning the day. Thats not because I am a christian its just that human beings have an inherent need to worship and derive meaning from God - however they articulate or formulate that. Thats why in the US Atheists are the most mistrusted people in society. Thats not going to change. Again, not a christian point, just a point.

However, atheists main point of attack has been on christianity. I realise that in the heat of debate silly things are said, christians are demonised, described as violent because of the OT, etc etc. And this has had an effect on society, you have had an impact. I think thats been seen in gay marriage etc.

Here is the rub. People are not turning to atheism, they never will. Instead Islam is filling the void. I predict that within 20 years the UK will be an Islamic state. I don't know about the US. If you want to know what that will look like, take a look at the Calaphate. This is the cost of atheism. You are trading Christianity for Islam.

Of course Christianity will continue and perhaps even thrive. Historically, it is when we are marginalised, and persecuted that the church is refined, becomes what it was meant to be, and grows. But what will society look like? Your attacks on Islam them will not be met with the same non-violent response that you have received from christians. This is the cost of atheism.

A significant percentage of people in the UK (and the rest of the world for that matter), would disagree with your assertion that humans need to worship something.

Atheism is growing faster than any religion...

It would take much longer than 20 years to turn Britain into an Islamic state... Muslims make up only 3 percent of the population.

Meanwhile those with no religious affiliation make up at least a third.

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27-08-2014, 10:27 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:24 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:18 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  To paraphrase Niels Bohr, "Einstein, quit telling nature what to do." Homosexuality in Nature.

That only moves it one step back from normative nature and dysfunctional or abnormal nature.

Abnormal is not the same as immoral.


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



My youtube musings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfFoxbz...UVi1pf4B5g
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27-08-2014, 10:28 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:13 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 10:04 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Prove that an atheist came up with that idea, or holds to it. In fact a prominent Christian ex-college president in the US preaches it, (Dinesh D'Sousa). He says Christianity is good as it's useful, (and in fcat so did YOU, by saying that morality comes from religion, and THAT is useful). Not such a critical thinker, are you.

Bucky

A chap called Jeremy Bentham created what we now know as utilitarianism and he was a staunch atheist. Google it. Its common knowledge. No idea what your own about in terms of critical thinking.

Just as I thought.
No facts.

Doesn't matter who first named what he called Utilitarianism, or what he believed or didn't believe. The concept has been around for eons. YOU used a Utiltarian argument for YOUR religion. YOU therefore espouse the concept.

So.
You cannot in any way support your OP.

That's what I figured. You just repeated a personal unsupported opinion, and expected others would be stupid enough to buy it.
Just like your religion, and it's proponents do.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-08-2014, 10:30 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 10:07 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 09:59 AM)Dom Wrote:  You know, I like you. I hope attacks won't make you react like a cornered animal, you need a thick skin here.

People here are as different as night and day, we come from all walks of life, all age groups, all corners of the world, various cultures and ethnic backgrounds and sexual orientation and what have you. There is no common denominator at all, with the exception that none of us believe in any gods.

What we also have in common is a moral compass. Just go and read our support section and then tell me we have no moral compass. A moral compass is part of evolution, it's not needed to invent one, we all have it already unless something went wrong genetically with an individual. We have been living in groups since ever as far as I know. Lots of time to evolve into a being with a social consciousness. If you study the animal world, you will find the same in herd, flock and pack animals etc. Strict rules of conduct that serve to protect the group.

So, this is innate in us, as well as provided by laws. Those individuals who break the unwritten rules are taken care of through the written law.

Why would we need a third group of rules that says the exact same as the other two sets?

Bumping this because I don't think Christian noticed it there at the bottom of the page, and this thread is growing like wildfire.

yep, sorry did miss this. I'm having about 10 conversations at once!

I think you miss the point. If atheists say that homosexuality is not morally wrong, and for example, Russia says it is. On what basis should people say Russia is wrong, and that it is a human rights issue? How can you make your opinion a universal law so that you decry nations and people who disagree with you? (womans rights too, and anything else).
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27-08-2014, 10:33 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
Can someone give me the gist of what this new guys believes about homosexuality?

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