The cost of atheism
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27-08-2014, 12:36 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:17 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 11:39 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Its such a shame to come here and just be called a fool, an ignoramus, a prat. Guys, your not selling atheism very well. Your just unpleasant not nice people, who seem incapable of reasonable and rational discussion. Do I have to be the enemy just because I am a chrisitan? I have friends who are atheists, we manage not to shoot each other. Yes, I disagree with you, and? Is that life threatening to you, are you insecure in your beliefs? I don't get it. I was hoping to make friends here.

I aint selling shit. You're the one with a product to move. Oh and that was entirely to do with your apparent lack of biblical history or compositional knowledge. Much as when someone disparages evolution by invoking the 2nd law of thermodynamics it tells me they have no knowledge of the subject at hand and are therefore not worth listening to on that subject. Were you in one of the non-debate sections of the forum then I would not care what your metaphysics were as long as you did not insert them. But you are here in this section exposing your ignorance while arrogantly claiming privileged knowledge.

Dudes, you lost me on these two replies, I need some elaboration. How am I showing my ignorance? What about the guns?
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27-08-2014, 12:37 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 11:51 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Love that Phil, its very funny. Good luck with the Russians and the Muslims.

Thanks - good luck with the ongoing extinction of religion in the UK ;-)

If nothing else, I have been impressed with your polite behaviour in a challenging situation, and your attempts to engage sincerely with people.

Phil
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27-08-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:34 PM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 11:56 AM)wazzel Wrote:  Does not help the situation at all, Jesus said you still have to follow the old rules (Matthew 5:17).

No he didn't, He said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it. For example the rules on sacrificing animals are fulfilled in His sacrificial death; so instead of sacrificing animals we now trust in the ultimate sacrifice. Everything in the OT is either fulfilled and now taken up into the person of Christ, or fulfilled and then re-issued through Christ. Fulfilled is not abolished. Standard Christian theology.

Human sacrifice is disgusting. Your beliefs are horse shit.
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27-08-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 11:45 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 11:24 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Bullshit.
Works fine for me, and countless others. YOU said morality comes from religion, and that's a good thing. THAT IS "utilitarian", if that is true. Please grow a brain, soon.


Bucky, I don't know if you caught my other post so I will repeat it here. I find you rude and unpleasant. You seem link a very angry and unhappy man. I don't think atheism is working for you. I will not engage with you again as you seem incapable of being civil.

Oh. Ok. If you say so, that must be it. Why I'll get me to a preacher just this afternoon, and repent, and Jeeeesas will all save me and such and such and such.
That's the ticket.
Tongue


























































Not

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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27-08-2014, 12:41 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:09 PM)PaulPablo Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 06:59 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Hi all,

Brief disclosure, I am a christian but not here to get into bun fights. Been there, done that, not interested.

I do want to raise a point about the cost of atheism to the western world. In particular I live in the UK, but I'm sure this holds true for the US etc.

I do not think that atheism ever has a chance of winning the day. Thats not because I am a christian its just that human beings have an inherent need to worship and derive meaning from God - however they articulate or formulate that. Thats why in the US Atheists are the most mistrusted people in society. Thats not going to change. Again, not a christian point, just a point.

However, atheists main point of attack has been on christianity. I realise that in the heat of debate silly things are said, christians are demonised, described as violent because of the OT, etc etc. And this has had an effect on society, you have had an impact. I think thats been seen in gay marriage etc.

Here is the rub. People are not turning to atheism, they never will. Instead Islam is filling the void. I predict that within 20 years the UK will be an Islamic state. I don't know about the US. If you want to know what that will look like, take a look at the Calaphate. This is the cost of atheism. You are trading Christianity for Islam.

Of course Christianity will continue and perhaps even thrive. Historically, it is when we are marginalised, and persecuted that the church is refined, becomes what it was meant to be, and grows. But what will society look like? Your attacks on Islam them will not be met with the same non-violent response that you have received from christians. This is the cost of atheism.

I agree that athiests shouldn't waste their time in most situations debating about the bible and Christianity, but my reason for thinking that is because

1) Most people who consider themselves to be Christians don't read or care about what is in the bible. There's no central debating point to consider.

2) The bible is a ridiculous book full of ancient myths, talking snakes, flood myths, virgins giving birth and so on. There would be no logic in me thinking "Hmmm all the other flood myths and creation stories from around the world sound like ridiculous tales coming from ancient people, but this book of myths might have some grounding to be taken seriously enough to debate about"

3) I actually think you're right that most Christians who do read the bible believe in turning the other cheek and are quite peaceful people. As opposed to the verses of the quran which quite often at least vaguely speak about fighting.

The bible is full of statements about loving your enemy and praying for them, yet I read not long ago an autobiography by an American sniper who was so proud to be Christian, yet he's hardly turning the other cheek or loving his enemies by shooting them from very far away with a high powered rifle. I wouldn't even know where to begin debating someone with that kind of illogical outlook.

On any forum or any youtube channel the only religion I think it's worth arguing about is Islam. I live in the UK and I also think it's an actual problem here.
And their holy book is an actual challenge to argue about because it's basically the same as the bible only more vague (which leaves more room for excuses) and in Arabic. Usually when you find something that looks wrong in the quran the excuses will be as follows.

1) That translation is wrong.
2) When that verse is related to the hadith it isn't as bad/wrong as it looks.

The quran is as ridiculous as the bible but Muslims will change the words of the quran to make it look more scientific than it is, they try hard to get scientific miracles from the quran.
I also think it's important for Islam to be continually criticized because it's obvious that at least in the UK people are much more afraid of criticizing Islam than Christianity. The end result could be politically correct people branding you as a racist, or it could be muslims killing you.

I agree with your comments about Islam in the UK. It needs challenging at every level of society. It is publicly protected by the PM as he foolishly thinks that he is getting the "moderates" on his side. There is real danger to the UK I think.
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27-08-2014, 12:44 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
Please answer post #169...I answered your question to me there - you have not responded.


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



My youtube musings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfFoxbz...UVi1pf4B5g
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27-08-2014, 12:46 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 11:56 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 11:52 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  I couldn't find the original to this post. But my advice would be to leave Judaism and become a Christian then it won't be an issue for you.

huh? Huh This is from your book, buddy.

I have explained how the Bible works many times on here, please refer to one of those.
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27-08-2014, 12:48 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 11:58 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 06:59 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Hi all,

Brief disclosure, I am a christian but not here to get into bun fights. Been there, done that, not interested.

I do want to raise a point about the cost of atheism to the western world. In particular I live in the UK, but I'm sure this holds true for the US etc.

I do not think that atheism ever has a chance of winning the day. Thats not because I am a christian its just that human beings have an inherent need to worship and derive meaning from God - however they articulate or formulate that. Thats why in the US Atheists are the most mistrusted people in society. Thats not going to change. Again, not a christian point, just a point.

However, atheists main point of attack has been on christianity. I realise that in the heat of debate silly things are said, christians are demonised, described as violent because of the OT, etc etc. And this has had an effect on society, you have had an impact. I think thats been seen in gay marriage etc.

Here is the rub. People are not turning to atheism, they never will. Instead Islam is filling the void. I predict that within 20 years the UK will be an Islamic state. I don't know about the US. If you want to know what that will look like, take a look at the Calaphate. This is the cost of atheism. You are trading Christianity for Islam.

Of course Christianity will continue and perhaps even thrive. Historically, it is when we are marginalised, and persecuted that the church is refined, becomes what it was meant to be, and grows. But what will society look like? Your attacks on Islam them will not be met with the same non-violent response that you have received from christians. This is the cost of atheism.

Welcome, now let me school you. 1) religiosity worldwide is on the decline. 2nd fastest group on the incline is atheism. 2) do some research, there is a well studied and documented direct correlation between religiosity and low rankings in regards to quality of life, familial relationships, crime, teen pregnancy, medical issues etc. Example, enjoying the highest tier of ranked civilizations in these areas are the Scandinavian countries, secular, and highest quality of life. Direct contrast, what is the most religious country in the world? Muslim countries, guess who is at the very bottom of civilization rankings?

Morals - Only .07% of US prisoners are atheist, the largest group? Christians. 35% of US population is non religious, yet we only have .07% of the prison population. 50-55% of US is some version of Christianity, they enjoy about 80% of the US prison population. How does religious morals go again?

You are lucky I am at work and not home with access to my data bases or I would deluge you with facts/statistics and cited references.

Suffice it to say that not only does religion seek to control and subjugate everyone, but it is indeed bad for your physical and emotional health. Your delusion of choice is not only sad, but easily dismantled. I can topple your fairy tale like a pile of dominoes. Feel free to enter a debate with me and I will mop the floor with your ass.

How about we figure out the cost of Christianity to the world? The absolute disgusting brain washing child abusive system that you think makes sense because you happen to be a fan of it, only because you are either too uneducated, too gullible, or unintelligent to see through it.

hmm thats a tone Ive come to expect here. Nice.
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27-08-2014, 12:49 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:44 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Please answer post #169...I answered your question to me there - you have not responded.

Can't answer post 169 - it's bad luck, powerful too Tongue

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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27-08-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:34 PM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 11:56 AM)wazzel Wrote:  Does not help the situation at all, Jesus said you still have to follow the old rules (Matthew 5:17).

No he didn't, He said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it. For example the rules on sacrificing animals are fulfilled in His sacrificial death; so instead of sacrificing animals we now trust in the ultimate sacrifice. Everything in the OT is either fulfilled and now taken up into the person of Christ, or fulfilled and then re-issued through Christ. Fulfilled is not abolished. Standard Christian theology.

Nope again, Jesus said follow the old rules. (again in Matthew 23:1-3). Some Christian theology may interpret that the laws of Moses do not need to be followed, but there is no where in the bible where Jesus says that.
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