The cost of atheism
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27-08-2014, 12:51 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
where are you people coming from? Why are all these theist flooding TTA right now?

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27-08-2014, 12:52 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:48 PM)ChristianMan Wrote:  hmm thats a tone Ive come to expect here. Nice.

God you're so... Rolleyes precious. You think we *give* a damn about your feelings?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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27-08-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:48 PM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 11:58 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Welcome, now let me school you. 1) religiosity worldwide is on the decline. 2nd fastest group on the incline is atheism. 2) do some research, there is a well studied and documented direct correlation between religiosity and low rankings in regards to quality of life, familial relationships, crime, teen pregnancy, medical issues etc. Example, enjoying the highest tier of ranked civilizations in these areas are the Scandinavian countries, secular, and highest quality of life. Direct contrast, what is the most religious country in the world? Muslim countries, guess who is at the very bottom of civilization rankings?

Morals - Only .07% of US prisoners are atheist, the largest group? Christians. 35% of US population is non religious, yet we only have .07% of the prison population. 50-55% of US is some version of Christianity, they enjoy about 80% of the US prison population. How does religious morals go again?

You are lucky I am at work and not home with access to my data bases or I would deluge you with facts/statistics and cited references.

Suffice it to say that not only does religion seek to control and subjugate everyone, but it is indeed bad for your physical and emotional health. Your delusion of choice is not only sad, but easily dismantled. I can topple your fairy tale like a pile of dominoes. Feel free to enter a debate with me and I will mop the floor with your ass.

How about we figure out the cost of Christianity to the world? The absolute disgusting brain washing child abusive system that you think makes sense because you happen to be a fan of it, only because you are either too uneducated, too gullible, or unintelligent to see through it.

hmm thats a tone Ive come to expect here. Nice.

You should not be surprised when you stir the hornets nest and get stung. Seriously what were you expecting? Everyone would convert upon your arrival?
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27-08-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 11:48 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 11:47 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  That one is cheating, because Jesus didn't say it -- Paul did. I don't recall Jesus saying anything in support of slavery.

However, I would cite Jesus's teaching about Hell. The very concept of Hell is immoral -- infinite punishment for finite crimes. Even for someone like Hitler, who everyone agrees was evil, Hell would be excessive. But to eternally torture someone simply because he/she had "wrong" beliefs, or worshipped God in the "wrong" way -- that is not only immoral, it's disgustingly so.
Yep - I accept that error - the other 3 examples I used are however from Christ as well as his teaching on hell that you rightly quote.

Hell is an interesting one. In Christian circles there are three main views. Firstly, immediate annihilation, so no hell. The second is conditional immortality which is that people go to hell for time commensurate with their sins, and are then destroyed. The third is the traditional view.

I confess that I struggle with the traditional view of eternal punishment, for much the same reasons that you do. I have studied all three in detail and I think theologically its 50/50 between the last two. What I mean is the Bible is sufficiently unclear to leave me agnostic on the subject.

I think most people would think that at least the conditional immortality view is reasonable given our sense of justice. Not that mine or anyone else's opinion matters on the subject.
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27-08-2014, 12:55 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2014 01:03 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:48 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Secondly, on the issue of homosexuality, again why do you say that it constitutes moral advancement? It is obviously against nature, it is obviously bad for people's individual health, and it is obviously bad for society in terms of gay adoption etc, and for the propagation of the species. It flies in the face of evolution. How do you justify saying it is a moral advancement?

First, I'm a Christian.

Just FYI.

As for this statement, how can you justify serving an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God and feel this away about any form of "sin"?

For God to retain omnipotence, He had to create sin, and, in turn, we have a sin nature. In that, how can you feel negatively towards any sin? Or, more directly, how can you judge any sin?

God's feelings towards sin are His own. Judgment for sin is between God and that person. If anything, we should accept sin as part of our nature... we should strive to not participate in it, but we shouldn't identify anything about another person as "sinful". That isn't our job.

Homosexuality is a fact of life. It's natural... meaning, it's observed in all forms of nature. People are born gay. You cannot judge them for that. It's really none of your business... even as a Christian.

Moreover, God has gay elect... yep, I fully believe that there are gay Christians all over the place.

Just because you don't agree with someone's lifestyle doesn't mean they are damned/sinners/unnatural. God planned sin. God planned homosexuality. If He didn't, He isn't all powerful.

Get over yourself and stop pretending to be more righteous than God. God designed and programmed homosexuality. Who are you, mere man, to oppose what God has planned?

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27-08-2014, 12:57 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:51 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  where are you people coming from? Why are all these theist flooding TTA right now?

Just looks like normal statistical noise to me...

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27-08-2014, 12:59 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
Wow, just wow. 22 pages, so much I want to say, and so little time. So I'll say just a couple of things.

1) Regarding the OP, you have been paying attention to too many conspiracy theories.

2) You have made countless assertions in this thread without citations and so much is just factually incorrect.

3) You hit a favorite nerve of mine so this is the one I will address for now:

(27-08-2014 08:48 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Secondly, on the issue of homosexuality, again why do you say that it constitutes moral advancement? It is obviously against nature, it is obviously bad for people's individual health, and it is obviously bad for society in terms of gay adoption etc, and for the propagation of the species. It flies in the face of evolution. How do you justify saying it is a moral advancement
Actually, homosexuality is quite natural. It is not at all against nature.

It is unrelated to people's health since it is merely about sexuality. If you want to claim certain diseases as what's unhealthy, then provide a citation that shows those diseases don't exist among heterosexuals. Consider It is diseases that are unhealthy, not sexual orientation.

Children of homosexual parents fare just as well as children of heterosexual parents. More information here and here.

As for propagation of the species, have you ever thought about overpopulation? Or that homosexuals might fulfull helper positions (for example, helping to raise children)? There are plenty of heterosexuals to provide new babies. There is nothing about homosexuality that is bad for that.

Since you think homosexuality flies in the face of evolution, then you don't understand evolution. Evolution depends on variances. The fact that homosexuality is consistent with evolution is exactly why homosexuality is observable in countless animal species.

Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. Even by your own religion, your god created homosexuals so it would be natural even by that fiction. Therefore, the true immorality comes only from those who condemn homosexuals for simply being who they are! Dodgy There is nothing immoral about homosexuality.

So much for your repeated "obviously"...

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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27-08-2014, 01:00 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 08:48 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Secondly, on the issue of homosexuality, again why do you say that it constitutes moral advancement? It is obviously against nature, it is obviously bad for people's individual health, and it is obviously bad for society in terms of gay adoption etc, and for the propagation of the species. It flies in the face of evolution. How do you justify saying it is a moral advancement?

First, I'm a Christian.

Just FYI.

As for this statement, how can you justify serving an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God an feel this away about any form of "sin"?

For God to retain omnipotence, He had to create sin, and, in turn, we have a sin nature. In that, how can you feel negatively towards any sin? Or, more directly, how can you judge any sin?

God's feelings towards sin are His own. Judgment for sin is between God and that person. If anything, we should accept sin as part of our nature... we should strive to not participate in it, but we shouldn't identify anything about another person as "sinful". That isn't our job.

Homosexuality is a fact of life. It's natural... meaning, it's observed in all forms of nature. People are born gay. You cannot judge them for that. It's really none of your business... even as a Christian.

Moreover, God has gay elect... yep, I fully believe that there are gay Christians all over the place.

Just because you don't agree with someone's lifestyle doesn't mean they are damned/sinners/unnatural. God planned sin. God planned homosexuality. If He didn't, He isn't all powerful.

Get over yourself and stop pretending to be more righteous than God. God designed and programmed homosexuality. Who are you, mere man, to oppose what God has planned?

Thats a strange post, Kings Chosen. First, I need to establish whether you believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God? When I know where you are coming from I will then reply to your points.
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27-08-2014, 01:01 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 08:48 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Secondly, on the issue of homosexuality, again why do you say that it constitutes moral advancement? It is obviously against nature, it is obviously bad for people's individual health, and it is obviously bad for society in terms of gay adoption etc, and for the propagation of the species. It flies in the face of evolution. How do you justify saying it is a moral advancement?

First, I'm a Christian.

Just FYI.

As for this statement, how can you justify serving an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God an feel this away about any form of "sin"?

For God to retain omnipotence, He had to create sin, and, in turn, we have a sin nature. In that, how can you feel negatively towards any sin? Or, more directly, how can you judge any sin?

God's feelings towards sin are His own. Judgment for sin is between God and that person. If anything, we should accept sin as part of our nature... we should strive to not participate in it, but we shouldn't identify anything about another person as "sinful". That isn't our job.

Homosexuality is a fact of life. It's natural... meaning, it's observed in all forms of nature. People are born gay. You cannot judge them for that. It's really none of your business... even as a Christian.

Moreover, God has gay elect... yep, I fully believe that there are gay Christians all over the place.

Just because you don't agree with someone's lifestyle doesn't mean they are damned/sinners/unnatural. God planned sin. God planned homosexuality. If He didn't, He isn't all powerful.

Get over yourself and stop pretending to be more righteous than God. God designed and programmed homosexuality. Who are you, mere man, to oppose what God has planned?

Fuck KC, I've missed your theology stuff. 'Course you're batshit crazy but you're *also* a fucken class A human which is what I look for in batshit crazy. Heart Seriously dude, you are the fucken bomb...


Sorry for all the fucken... It's a fucken rough week...and it's only Wednesday... and I'm listening to fucken fantastic music right now...
Big Grin

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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27-08-2014, 01:03 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 01:00 PM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 12:55 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  First, I'm a Christian.

Just FYI.

As for this statement, how can you justify serving an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent God an feel this away about any form of "sin"?

For God to retain omnipotence, He had to create sin, and, in turn, we have a sin nature. In that, how can you feel negatively towards any sin? Or, more directly, how can you judge any sin?

God's feelings towards sin are His own. Judgment for sin is between God and that person. If anything, we should accept sin as part of our nature... we should strive to not participate in it, but we shouldn't identify anything about another person as "sinful". That isn't our job.

Homosexuality is a fact of life. It's natural... meaning, it's observed in all forms of nature. People are born gay. You cannot judge them for that. It's really none of your business... even as a Christian.

Moreover, God has gay elect... yep, I fully believe that there are gay Christians all over the place.

Just because you don't agree with someone's lifestyle doesn't mean they are damned/sinners/unnatural. God planned sin. God planned homosexuality. If He didn't, He isn't all powerful.

Get over yourself and stop pretending to be more righteous than God. God designed and programmed homosexuality. Who are you, mere man, to oppose what God has planned?

Thats a strange post, Kings Chosen. First, I need to establish whether you believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God? When I know where you are coming from I will then reply to your points.

I do not believe it is literally infallible as it never makes that claim.

The claim that is made is that it's the inspired Word of God. Huge difference.

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