The cost of atheism
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27-08-2014, 01:04 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:37 PM)phil.a Wrote:  Thanks - good luck with the ongoing extinction of religion in the UK ;-)

Yeah there's loads of unused churches being converted to gastro pubs or being sold to property developers to be knocked down and replaced with blocks of flats (apartments).

Last I heard only 10% of the population were regular church going Christians. About the same percentage of gay people, or left handed people.

If it declines any more then there will have to be a Christian couple featured on a socially aware soap opera and Christian Pride marches through London where people are warned in advance that cameras are ahead.
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27-08-2014, 01:11 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 11:38 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 11:18 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Two things then:

1. Can you give me examples of the teachings of Jesus that are immoral?

2. On what basis do you say they are immoral?

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ;

Tells slaves to accept their place as slaves.

If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.

Openly preaches hate.

“Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”

Places blind faith on the same level as reasonable doubt - to my mind the latter is far more moral.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.

Gives free reign for believers to think nothing of consequences of their actions.

Those are four that immediately spring to mind.

I think you retracted slaves in a later post. But I can tackle that if you want me too, let me know.

In terms of hating you mother and Father, Jesus is using comparative absolute language to make a point. The point is there must be no rivals to our love for Christ. This is in line with the greatest commandment, love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. The OT and NT also teaches children to obey and respect their parents.

In terms of Thomas, I would just have to disagree with you. If Jesus was returning to Heaven then His future followers would not see Him bodily as Thomas did. So their act of faith is greater, and more blessed by God. I don't see the problem.

take no thought for tomorrow... is about trusting God and not being anxious. Jesus is saying "don't worry about it". The NT also says that if a man will not work he should not be allowed to eat.

You are cherry picking texts and trying to make something out of them they are not.
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27-08-2014, 01:21 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
Why is giving examples of what I perceive to be immorality in the NT now cherry-picking? I gave you what you asked for! Dodgy nonetheless...

We shall just have to disagree with each other about Thomas because I don't see your mind changing at this point.

Taking no thought for the morrow may be about trusting God - that is something I don't question, but it also gives license for inaction on so many things.

As to the commandment to love. To quote Alan Watts "Is that a commandment or a joke?" How can you enforce love? You cannot be forced to love another human so how can you love God on command?


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



My youtube musings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfFoxbz...UVi1pf4B5g
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27-08-2014, 01:22 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
Holy shit ! This troll is hardcore ! 69 posts in one day!Laugh out load
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27-08-2014, 01:28 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 01:22 PM)Leo Wrote:  Holy shit ! This troll is hardcore ! 69 posts in one day!Laugh out load

Hey Christian dude , are you this guy ?


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27-08-2014, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2014 01:38 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 12:48 PM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 11:58 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Welcome, now let me school you. 1) religiosity worldwide is on the decline. 2nd fastest group on the incline is atheism. 2) do some research, there is a well studied and documented direct correlation between religiosity and low rankings in regards to quality of life, familial relationships, crime, teen pregnancy, medical issues etc. Example, enjoying the highest tier of ranked civilizations in these areas are the Scandinavian countries, secular, and highest quality of life. Direct contrast, what is the most religious country in the world? Muslim countries, guess who is at the very bottom of civilization rankings?

Morals - Only .07% of US prisoners are atheist, the largest group? Christians. 35% of US population is non religious, yet we only have .07% of the prison population. 50-55% of US is some version of Christianity, they enjoy about 80% of the US prison population. How does religious morals go again?

You are lucky I am at work and not home with access to my data bases or I would deluge you with facts/statistics and cited references.

Suffice it to say that not only does religion seek to control and subjugate everyone, but it is indeed bad for your physical and emotional health. Your delusion of choice is not only sad, but easily dismantled. I can topple your fairy tale like a pile of dominoes. Feel free to enter a debate with me and I will mop the floor with your ass.

How about we figure out the cost of Christianity to the world? The absolute disgusting brain washing child abusive system that you think makes sense because you happen to be a fan of it, only because you are either too uneducated, too gullible, or unintelligent to see through it.

hmm thats a tone Ive come to expect here. Nice.

and not answering up to the facts laid out for you is what we have come to expect as well...

All we have had lately is a series of fundamentalist Xtians who are unable to articulate or substantiate their faith, and when I thoroughly dismantle the bible for them, they scream in caps "Your are going to hell" and then run away. So unless you can actually enter intelligent discourse, have an ability to substantiate and validate your faith, and can interpret facts as they are laid out neutrally, then you are wasting your time entering our forum.

Let's do a test:

You made a reference to something about jesus. Since all writings of jesus were made by people who based it on hearsay and oral traditions, and none of them, let me say it again slower....N..O..N...E...of them actually had met jesus, how can you base anything on scripture in reference to jesus when it is all pseudepigrapha, interpolations, parables, allegorical writings or simply hearsay?

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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27-08-2014, 01:34 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
As per standard, I get ignored.

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27-08-2014, 01:36 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 01:21 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Why is giving examples of what I perceive to be immorality in the NT now cherry-picking? I gave you what you asked for! Dodgy nonetheless...

We shall just have to disagree with each other about Thomas because I don't see your mind changing at this point.

Taking no thought for the morrow may be about trusting God - that is something I don't question, but it also gives license for inaction on so many things.

As to the commandment to love. To quote Alan Watts "Is that a commandment or a joke?" How can you enforce love? You cannot be forced to love another human so how can you love God on command?

What I meant by cherry picking was isolating texts from their NT contexts which explain their meaning.

No one could read the NT and say that Jesus is giving license to do nothing. You could only do that if you read that one verse and nothing else. Read the NT and see if you feel it gives license for you to do nothing. The christian work ethic is very strong.
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27-08-2014, 01:38 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
The UK becoming an Islamic State? Bitch please! Many of the UK countries have some of the highest populations of atheists in the entire world.

Just ask Sweden, they will tell you all about it and that is 23% and climbing and Norway is 29%.

If what you say was true, atheism would not be rising in numbers around the entire world. In the U.S, there is an estimated 5% of the people who openly claim they are Atheists. This number is highly inaccurate though as we cannot ask every single person and get an honest answer as its illegal to force everyone to tell us.

That is NOT including everyone who is a secular humanist, agnostic, free thinker, or those who do not know what to call themselves or care enough about the subject to give their answer at all. On top of that, it is not including the people who are lying to themselves out of fear of being persecuted and those who only pretend to believe in god out of fear of the same thing or because they are being forced or feel like they are being forced to believe from family, friends or community OR just because they are not logical enough to see through how completely absurd and retarded Pascals wager is.

If we were to somehow count all of them. We would probably see a number that is closer to 15-20% of America and RISING.

Also, as a final note. Atheism does NOT have a cost. It is completely free. I have never had to pay money to a institute or to a guy wearing robes walking down an isle with a pan when I became an atheist. You DO however have to pay money to be a theist. So the real title of this thread needs to be the cost of THEISM, not atheism as atheism does not cost you anything.....unless you want a book or a T shirt but that doesn't count.


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27-08-2014, 01:38 PM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 01:32 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 12:48 PM)ChristianMan Wrote:  hmm thats a tone Ive come to expect here. Nice.

and not answering up to the facts laid out for you is what we have come to expect as well...

All we have had lately is a series of fundamentalist Xtians who are unable to articulate or substantiate their faith, and when I thoroughly dismantle the bible for them, they scream in caps "Your are going to hell" and then run away." So unless you can actually enter intelligent discourse, have an ability to substantiate and validate your faith, and can interpret facts as they are laid out neutrally, then you are wasting your time entering our forum.

Let's do a test:

You made a reference to something about jesus. Since all writings of jesus were made by people who based it on hearsay and oral traditions, and none of them, let me say it again slower....N..O..N...E...of them actually had met jesus, how can you base anything on scripture in reference to jesus when it is all pseudepigrapha, interpolations, parables, allegorical writings or simply hearsay?

Liberal scholarship was debunked years ago. Go on then, prove to me that NT was written years later by people who never met Jesus, like Paul?
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