The cost of atheism
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28-08-2014, 01:39 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(28-08-2014 01:15 AM)phil.a Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 04:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Really? I find him rather smug and pretentious and disingenuous.

OK, notice those are all qualities that are conveyed in the tone of someone's words, not in the "words as conceptual objects".

And there is no tone in written words, that's something we read into them. So it's very dangerous reacting to tone on the internet when the writing is by someone we have never actually met face to face (e.g. heard speak in person).

I find him lacking in awareness, but I feel it's not rationally coherent to beat someone up for what they don't have.

Hence why (despite the fact I myself am a gay man) I am trying to mindfully challenge his homophobia but not attack him for his homophobia.

* The former might make my world a better place

* The latter will confirm any beliefs he has about homosexuals as nasty people, I'm not here to step into that storyline, I'm here to create a radical new narrative

Phil

I disagree.

While, yes, tone is more difficult to detect via text, it can be fairly evident and forthright.

This douche reeks of holier-than-thou pretentiousness while offering condemnation to those he feels have garnered it.

Jesus taught to treat non-believers with the utmost respect; to never judge them and to strive to understand, communicate, and use love and empathy in every occasion in regards to interacting with unbelievers.

Jesus' anger and aggression came out when He dealt with the hypocritical believers that judged and used their self imposed righteousness as a means of self-elevation and moral authority.

You see this with the Pharisees and when He cleaned out the temple. Jesus is never aggressive or judgmental towards unbelievers.

I'm following Jesus' lead and calling this hypocrite out on his actions and behavior that are in conflict with Jesus' actions as well as calling him out on his lack of understanding of scripture despite having a theologicalol degree.

My words back my actions. I walk the walk and talk the talk. He may as well, but his "walk" isn't that of the teachings of Christ. I have no quams calling him out on because his douchebaggery affects the fragile relationship that I have worked hard to create.

Even now on TTA, just because I'm a Christian, people are wary and suspicious of me. It's really not fair that jackasses like this can do so much irreparable harm to my repuatation with narrow-minded, ignorant, hateful, bigoted posts found in this thread.

...nothing pisses me off more...

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28-08-2014, 01:53 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 06:59 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  ...Thats not because I am a christian its just that human beings have an inherent need to worship and derive meaning from God - however they articulate or formulate that. Thats why in the US Atheists are the most mistrusted people in society. Thats not going to change. Again, not a christian point, just a point.

Yeah, look I'm not satisfied with that claim that humans have an inherent need to worship a god. For example I can claim that humans have worshiped a god due to a lack of knowledge or rather incorrect knowledge.


(27-08-2014 06:59 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  Here is the rub. People are not turning to atheism, they never will. Instead Islam is filling the void. I predict that within 20 years the UK will be an Islamic state. I don't know about the US. If you want to know what that will look like, take a look at the Calaphate. This is the cost of atheism. You are trading Christianity for Islam.

Atheism does not trade Christianity for Islam. If atheism can be said to cause Christians to flock to Islam, it is because they did not understand the core principles of atheism. Substantiated belief is required. We need evidence. We need rational deduction. Playing musical chairs jumping from one religion to another without thought is simply foolish. When I realised that Christianity was crap I didn't jump to Islam. I realised that I needed an actual reason to believe now. All these religions just present claims. I'm done belief based on claims.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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28-08-2014, 01:58 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(28-08-2014 01:39 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...
Jesus taught to treat non-believers with the utmost respect; to never judge them
...

He did?

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."
-- 2 John 7

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Cor.6:14-17

Oh, yeah, very nice.

Come out from among us KC.

Angel

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28-08-2014, 01:58 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 02:17 PM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 12:52 PM)morondog Wrote:  God you're so... Rolleyes precious. You think we *give* a damn about your feelings?

No, as an atheist I expect you to have very poor, inconsistent morality. Which you are demonstrating.

Rolleyes Yeah, you had a prejudice and all it took was being called a prat (which you are) to have it confirmed. I mean, these atheists, look at them, just having a good time, not giving a shit about my retarded God, having wonderful lives... Oh but it'll *all* change when they die, *then* we'll see who's laughing then! My ever-so-loving God will *deal* with those fuckers. Yeah. Meantime I'mma be a snivelling twat and irritate them. Thumbsup

Seems like your plan is working Smile

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-08-2014, 02:12 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(28-08-2014 01:58 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(28-08-2014 01:39 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...
Jesus taught to treat non-believers with the utmost respect; to never judge them
...

He did?

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."
-- 2 John 7

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." -- 2 Cor.6:14-17

Oh, yeah, very nice.

Come out from among us KC.

Angel

Jesus is addressing believers here and not unbelievers. He is teaching them and preparing them for trials which they may encounter and how to respond to them and to be aware of them so that the believers won't fall into crises of faith and/or problems with domestic life due to differing beliefs.

So, yeah... He wasn't being aggressive to non-believers in those verses.

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28-08-2014, 02:13 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
kingschosen:

OK Mr, well first off, I respect your position, and how you are prepared to defend people here from those in your own spiritual community who you feel are behaving badly.

Your position in that respect has something in common with my own position, in that I tend to be rather critical of other gay men's own perpetuation of the gay victim stereotype.

Although regarding ChristianMan - with the greatest of respect, can I ask - do you think there is a possibility that you might be judging him?

To frame this in Christian terms - the reason Jesus does not judge is not because judgement is "wrong" or "bad", but because Jesus does not see judgement, Jesus sees love wherever he looks because actually - in actual reality (in the kingdom on this earth) - that's all that actually exists?

So wherever he looks, he sees people who are already perfect. It's pretty easy to be nice to perfect people! That's easy! And Jesus could see that everyone is perfect, so actually - quite easy for him to be that nice to everyone.

But it's a big ask - of others and of ourselves - that we look out at the world through eyes which have that degree of clarity.

ChristianMan said of me, that if we met - he was sure we would get on really well. I believe him!

I don't care if he judges me - I'm not here to step into that storyline, I am here to create a new narrative.

On the subject of seeing the world with clarity, actually I think it starts with self acceptance, it starts with loving ourselves. If I find myself stuck in judgement, I go and take a bubble bath or something ;-)

Phil
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28-08-2014, 02:24 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
No' I'm not judging him.

I am following scripture. There are specific, blatant instructions in the Bible in regards to addressing believers that are participating in un-Christ-like behavior.

Moreover, pointing out fact isn't judging.

Pointing out the fact that you're gay isn't a judgment. Saying that you're a sinner for being gay is a judgment.

Pointing out the fact that he is self-righteously condemning others isn't judging. Stating how angry that behavior makes me isn't judging. Pointing out the fact that this behavior conflicts with Christian teachings isn't judging.

Judging him would be me saying that he is a horrible person full of sin/attacking him as a person.

I'm attacking his behavior because it flies in the face of Christ... and, as Christians, we are instructed to quell this behavior quickly and efficiently.

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28-08-2014, 02:28 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(28-08-2014 02:24 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  No' I'm not judging him.

I am following scripture. There are specific, blatant instructions in the Bible in regards to addressing believers that are participating in un-Christ-like behavior.

Moreover, pointing out fact isn't judging.

Pointing out the fact that you're gay isn't a judgment. Saying that you're a sinner for being gay is a judgment.

Pointing out the fact that he is self-righteously condemning others isn't judging. Stating how angry that behavior makes me isn't judging. Pointing out the fact that this behavior conflicts with Christian teachings isn't judging.

Judging him would be me saying that he is a horrible person full of sin/attacking him as a person.

I'm attacking his behavior because it flies in the face of Christ... and, as Christians, we are instructed to quell this behavior quickly and efficiently.

Book of Max Chapter 3 "And Lo did the Lord say unto him "When among you a dispute shalt rise into the dome of thunder must ye both go, for it is written that 2 shalt enter yet only one may leave" and it was proclaimed holy."

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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28-08-2014, 02:32 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(28-08-2014 02:24 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Judging him would be me saying that he is a horrible person

You poor wee bastards are helluva constrained in this respect Tongue I have no reason not to judge said fucker and find him wanting Drinking Beverage

Difference is, *ChristianMan*, that you came here to have your preconceived notions confirmed, and every time someone isn't as sweet as butter to you you *do* have them confirmed, whereas we let you dig your own hole, prove yourself, and then judge you an ass Smile

Congratulations on representing your faith Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-08-2014, 02:33 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
kingschosen:

OK I get that, but can I ask you something -

Was Jesus a Christian?

Phil
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