The cost of atheism
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27-08-2014, 08:50 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:34 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 08:32 AM)TheBear Wrote:  Please put away that broad brush. The only thing atheists have in common is the lack of belief in god(s). Beyond that, mileage, (and individual personalities), will vary, just like with religious folk.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid634364

I understand what you mean.

I don't think you do.

You lumped all atheists together as being mistrusted, using an individual atheist reading your posts as rude and demanding that we obey you, as an example. I, another atheist, disagreed with that other atheist's assessment of your posts/attitude. I even linked you to the specific post where I disagreed with him.

I was actually in your corner on this one, but you missed it. Maybe you're reading to fast and not picking up on everything said. It's not good to do a quick glance at a post then do a knee-jerk, reactionary reply. Read everything thoroughly, absorb what was said, then reply.
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27-08-2014, 08:52 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
Just because part of the world disagrees with you - and your rather broad brush in using the term 'Eastern world', doesn't mean that they are right. I fail to see how you cannot say that the advancement of women's rights is an ethical improvement.

'Obviously bad for society in terms of gay adoption'. Citation.


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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27-08-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:37 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  ...
Is that Chris Hitchins in your picture?
...

That's Christopher Hitchens to you, young man!

Do NOT take the name of our Lord in vain!

Angry

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27-08-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:47 AM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  Welcome aboard. Smile

Please keep in mind that many religious people come here and act like morons. It makes users a little quick on the trigger.

Are people turning to Islam or is it the birth rates among certian muslim populations? That would make a difference.

Islam seems to have a bit of a civil war going on and they'll have to sort that out. Look at the response of muslim governments to the caliphate(s) being claimed.

The UK seems to have a much more radicalized segment of their muslim population than we do in the U.S. From what I read the muslims seem much more segregated from your society in general than here.

Islam is such a small factor here in percentage, they also do not try to change things for everyone else. If they do we'll be just as vocal with them.

I for one, do not think Xians are viloent. I do however think the object of their worship as described in the bible is a very, very unpleasant and nasty role model. Luckily most of them do not take it as gospel (if you'll pardon the pun).

In the U.S, most atheists concetrate on christianity because it's the dominant faith and the one politicians use when trying to restrict rights, deny science or ruin education.

In any case I think the ease of obtaining will make indoctrination harder.

Again, welcome, I hope you stick around if you want honest conversation.

Hi Kid, thanks for the welcome and pleasant post.

Islam is different that Christianity. No one is born a christian, but you are born a muslim. Their very purposeful takeover takes many forms, from conversion to marriage, to war, to birth. Islam is a political, social and civic movement. Christianity is a spiritual movement. It was never meant to be political. i think the US went wrong there (if I understand it rightly), and the UK went wrong in having a state church - something I oppose.

You are right that in the UK islam is segregated, it does not integrate well. Recently, it has infiltrated state schools. There have been muslim patrols on the streets where they tell people to put Alcohol away, women to cover up, people must not walk past their mosques, men have been beaten. Our Government has been very naive. Islam is like a virus, it doesn't care how or where it grows as long as it grows. Muslims believe the whole world belongs to Allah, and every Muslim has a duty to be taking space and countries for him. I think Islam is greatly underestimated.

Another posted noted that its not rational. I think this is where western governments have failed. they think they can make Muslims think like westerners and hold western ideals.
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27-08-2014, 09:00 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:54 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 08:37 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  ...
Is that Chris Hitchins in your picture?
...

That's Christopher Hitchens to you, young man!

Do NOT take the name of our Lord in vain!

Angry

very sorry lol
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27-08-2014, 09:02 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:50 AM)TheBear Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 08:34 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  I understand what you mean.

I don't think you do.

You lumped all atheists together as being mistrusted, using an individual atheist reading your posts as rude and demanding that we obey you, as an example. I, another atheist, disagreed with that other atheist's assessment of your posts/attitude. I even linked you to the specific post where I disagreed with him.

I was actually in your corner on this one, but you missed it. Maybe you're reading to fast and not picking up on everything said. It's not good to do a quick glance at a post then do a knee-jerk, reactionary reply. Read everything thoroughly, absorb what was said, then reply.

Hi Bear, apologies for that. Its not easy when you one, answering numerous posts.
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27-08-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:52 AM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Just because part of the world disagrees with you - and your rather broad brush in using the term 'Eastern world', doesn't mean that they are right. I fail to see how you cannot say that the advancement of women's rights is an ethical improvement.

'Obviously bad for society in terms of gay adoption'. Citation.

Cider thinker, let me explain what I mean.

I have a basis of saying that women's rights is a good thing. I have a standard that is outside of society and opinion - the Bible.

My point is, you have nothing. So what makes you right and the many others who disagree with you wrong? What do you base it on? Whats your standard? It is probably the norms of western society. Well a vast part of the world don't share those norms, so why are they wrong and you right?

Do you see the point?
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27-08-2014, 09:05 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:58 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 08:47 AM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  Welcome aboard. Smile

Please keep in mind that many religious people come here and act like morons. It makes users a little quick on the trigger.

Are people turning to Islam or is it the birth rates among certian muslim populations? That would make a difference.

Islam seems to have a bit of a civil war going on and they'll have to sort that out. Look at the response of muslim governments to the caliphate(s) being claimed.

The UK seems to have a much more radicalized segment of their muslim population than we do in the U.S. From what I read the muslims seem much more segregated from your society in general than here.

Islam is such a small factor here in percentage, they also do not try to change things for everyone else. If they do we'll be just as vocal with them.

I for one, do not think Xians are viloent. I do however think the object of their worship as described in the bible is a very, very unpleasant and nasty role model. Luckily most of them do not take it as gospel (if you'll pardon the pun).

In the U.S, most atheists concetrate on christianity because it's the dominant faith and the one politicians use when trying to restrict rights, deny science or ruin education.

In any case I think the ease of obtaining will make indoctrination harder.

Again, welcome, I hope you stick around if you want honest conversation.

Hi Kid, thanks for the welcome and pleasant post.

Islam is different that Christianity. No one is born a christian, but you are born a muslim. Their very purposeful takeover takes many forms, from conversion to marriage, to war, to birth. Islam is a political, social and civic movement. Christianity is a spiritual movement. It was never meant to be political. i think the US went wrong there (if I understand it rightly), and the UK went wrong in having a state church - something I oppose.

You are right that in the UK islam is segregated, it does not integrate well. Recently, it has infiltrated state schools. There have been muslim patrols on the streets where they tell people to put Alcohol away, women to cover up, people must not walk past their mosques, men have been beaten. Our Government has been very naive. Islam is like a virus, it doesn't care how or where it grows as long as it grows. Muslims believe the whole world belongs to Allah, and every Muslim has a duty to be taking space and countries for him. I think Islam is greatly underestimated.

Another posted noted that its not rational. I think this is where western governments have failed. they think they can make Muslims think like westerners and hold western ideals.

Incorrect, most people are born into what ever their parents are. Kids are indoctrinated from birth. Pick your religion and it is true.

Incorrect again, at least from a historical perspective. Christianity and government were joined at the hip for a long time in many countries. Just look at the history of the UK.
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27-08-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:58 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 08:47 AM)KidCharlemagne1962 Wrote:  Welcome aboard. Smile

Please keep in mind that many religious people come here and act like morons. It makes users a little quick on the trigger.

Are people turning to Islam or is it the birth rates among certian muslim populations? That would make a difference.

Islam seems to have a bit of a civil war going on and they'll have to sort that out. Look at the response of muslim governments to the caliphate(s) being claimed.

The UK seems to have a much more radicalized segment of their muslim population than we do in the U.S. From what I read the muslims seem much more segregated from your society in general than here.

Islam is such a small factor here in percentage, they also do not try to change things for everyone else. If they do we'll be just as vocal with them.

I for one, do not think Xians are viloent. I do however think the object of their worship as described in the bible is a very, very unpleasant and nasty role model. Luckily most of them do not take it as gospel (if you'll pardon the pun).

In the U.S, most atheists concetrate on christianity because it's the dominant faith and the one politicians use when trying to restrict rights, deny science or ruin education.

In any case I think the ease of obtaining will make indoctrination harder.

Again, welcome, I hope you stick around if you want honest conversation.

Hi Kid, thanks for the welcome and pleasant post.

Islam is different that Christianity. No one is born a christian, but you are born a muslim. Their very purposeful takeover takes many forms, from conversion to marriage, to war, to birth. Islam is a political, social and civic movement. Christianity is a spiritual movement. It was never meant to be political. i think the US went wrong there (if I understand it rightly), and the UK went wrong in having a state church - something I oppose.

You are right that in the UK islam is segregated, it does not integrate well. Recently, it has infiltrated state schools. There have been muslim patrols on the streets where they tell people to put Alcohol away, women to cover up, people must not walk past their mosques, men have been beaten. Our Government has been very naive. Islam is like a virus, it doesn't care how or where it grows as long as it grows. Muslims believe the whole world belongs to Allah, and every Muslim has a duty to be taking space and countries for him. I think Islam is greatly underestimated.

Another posted noted that its not rational. I think this is where western governments have failed. they think they can make Muslims think like westerners and hold western ideals.

Muslims and Jews and Christians all claim they got it right. Now let me clue all of you in. Our species evolution is much older than any of those myths and humans were around when they falsely painted animal gods on cave walls and prayed to them.

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27-08-2014, 09:07 AM
RE: The cost of atheism
(27-08-2014 08:37 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(27-08-2014 08:28 AM)ChristianMan Wrote:  I'm trying so hard not to be drawn. The problem I have come across with atheists is that they want to quote OT texts and say christians have abandoned / changed their minds on them etc. I understand that when your fighting a cause its easy to make blanket statements without seeing how christians understand how their own tests work. The Bible interprets itself, it tells us what is abidingly valid and what was fulfilled at the coming of Christ etc. Let me give a brief example. In the OT the Sabbath was on a Sunday and work was forbidden. In the New Covenant, Christ fulfils what the Sabbath was pointing to ---- resting from dead works -----. and so we keep the Sabbath by trusting in Jesus.

On the other hand we maintain homosexual practice is wrong because it is outlawed in the OT, and the re-outlawed in the New Testament. (outlawed personally not civically).

**** I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about atheism, I think thats pointless. Just correcting inaccuracies******

Since we are correcting inaccuracies the Sabbath is from sundown on Friday to Sundown on Saturday, not Sunday.

I am not a life long atheist. I was a Christian for over 30 years and have done a lot of studying on the subject. The modern church does indeed decide to pick and choose what old values are still applicable. That is not a blanket statement, it is the truth. You proved that point in your response.

Can you elaborate please? Can you give me examples of picking and choosing?
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