The cover-up
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25-05-2017, 01:27 PM
RE: The cover-up
(25-05-2017 01:07 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(25-05-2017 12:39 PM)mordant Wrote:  A philosophical question: which, objectively speaking, is the greater threat to America: ISIS or Russia?

America, by three orders of magnitude at least. But it would never occur to muric'ns to self reflect when there are so many "others" (only the 95% of the rest of humanity) to blame.
America's current situation IS largely self-inflicted by a combination of nearly half the voters supporting Trump in the first place, most of them not defecting even with this creepshow of an administration, and the so-far moribund and elitist opposition party not substantively and credibly addressing the legitimate concerns of a large portion of the electorate, mostly lower and middle class working people.

But that was not the question under discussion.
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25-05-2017, 01:52 PM
RE: The cover-up
(25-05-2017 01:07 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(25-05-2017 12:39 PM)mordant Wrote:  A philosophical question: which, objectively speaking, is the greater threat to America: ISIS or Russia?

America, by three orders of magnitude at least. But it would never occur to muric'ns to self reflect when there are so many "others" (only the 95% of the rest of humanity) to blame.

Aww shucks, you beat me to it. I was going to rewrite Mordant's post correcting for bias.

What the hell, I'll do it anyway.

(25-05-2017 12:39 PM)mordant Wrote:  A philosophical question: which, objectively speaking, is the greater threat to global stability: America, ISIS or Russia?

I would maintain, based on revelations like those above, Russia America.

ISIS certainly gets a better emotional reaction, causes more existential dread, because children staggering out of a concert with nails in their face is horrifying, whereas America and Russia operates more in the shadows, doing much less flashy things that may seem relatively innocuous. Yet they both seem to have infiltrated and manipulated our numerous governments to the point of eroding, and potentially destroying, our a myriad of democratic institutions and fledgling democratic governments in South America, South East Asia and the Middle East in particular. Not that I want to see any bomb attacks anywhere, but a few dozen people a year killed in bombings, this countries can stand better than this daily drumbeat of undermining coming from the Russians Americans, which includes the daily drumbeat of Trump perfidy.

Of course, the Brits aren't exactly historically innocent in this either; it's just that they're less relevant than they used to be back in days of Empire.

Angel

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25-05-2017, 02:06 PM
RE: The cover-up
So the answer is that America is the greater threat to America?

I guess I'll buy that, since the less than half of the population won the election and is terrifying the rest of us.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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25-05-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: The cover-up
(25-05-2017 01:52 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(25-05-2017 01:07 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  America, by three orders of magnitude at least. But it would never occur to muric'ns to self reflect when there are so many "others" (only the 95% of the rest of humanity) to blame.

Aww shucks, you beat me to it. I was going to rewrite Mordant's post correcting for bias.

What the hell, I'll do it anyway.

(25-05-2017 12:39 PM)mordant Wrote:  A philosophical question: which, objectively speaking, is the greater threat to global stability: America, ISIS or Russia?

I would maintain, based on revelations like those above, Russia America.

ISIS certainly gets a better emotional reaction, causes more existential dread, because children staggering out of a concert with nails in their face is horrifying, whereas America and Russia operates more in the shadows, doing much less flashy things that may seem relatively innocuous. Yet they both seem to have infiltrated and manipulated our numerous governments to the point of eroding, and potentially destroying, our a myriad of democratic institutions and fledgling democratic governments in South America, South East Asia and the Middle East in particular. Not that I want to see any bomb attacks anywhere, but a few dozen people a year killed in bombings, this countries can stand better than this daily drumbeat of undermining coming from the Russians Americans, which includes the daily drumbeat of Trump perfidy.

Of course, the Brits aren't exactly historically innocent in this either; it's just that they're less relevant than they used to be back in days of Empire.

Angel

Thanks for the sweeping generalization, but not all of us "'muricans" are Trump voting, redneck, dumb-asses.
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25-05-2017, 10:42 PM
RE: The cover-up
(25-05-2017 02:07 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(25-05-2017 01:52 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Aww shucks, you beat me to it. I was going to rewrite Mordant's post correcting for bias.

What the hell, I'll do it anyway.


Of course, the Brits aren't exactly historically innocent in this either; it's just that they're less relevant than they used to be back in days of Empire.

Angel

Thanks for the sweeping generalization, but not all of us "'muricans" are Trump voting, redneck, dumb-asses.

Was Mordant's post referring to all Russians in a sweeping generalisation or just the Russian oligarchy / Military Industrial Complex? The latter, I think.

If you also assumed the latter, why make the assumption that the edited version referred to all Americans?

Tongue

In the same vein, you'd need to challenge Mordant's post by stating that not all Russians support Putin ... which, I think, is obvious.

Wink

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26-05-2017, 06:37 AM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2017 06:42 AM by Dom.)
RE: The cover-up
Isis is really a minor threat to the US. They are extremely violent but they are unlikely to destabilize the government.

What Trump did in Europe at the meetings - that was pretty much a destabilization of Nato - a long term Russian goal.

I am waiting for more facts to emerge, but it seems increasingly more possible that Russia is actually influencing the current administration to the point of destabilizing democracy in general.

So, the Russians are more of a threat to the US and to Europe than Isis could ever hope to be.

I believe the question was just about Isis, Russia and the US, but correct me if I am reading it wrong.

Internal US matters are very scary as well - it is within the realm of possibilities that we will have a civil war. And the right would win, they have the guns and the war-like spirit.

Non US or European countries would be affected in various ways as well - there is really no telling what all would happen if the US and Europe would collapse.

But as for the question asked by Mordant - terrorists are by far the minor threat to the US.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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26-05-2017, 08:32 AM
RE: The cover-up



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26-05-2017, 09:30 AM
RE: The cover-up
(26-05-2017 08:32 AM)DLJ Wrote:  


Sadcryface2 Thanks for reminding me of this song

Your faith is not evidence, your opinion is not fact, and your bias is not wisdom
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26-05-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: The cover-up
(25-05-2017 02:07 PM)pablo Wrote:  Thanks for the sweeping generalization, but not all of us "'muricans" are Trump voting, redneck, dumb-asses.

Plenty of Americans who voted for Obama also voted for Trump. The right-wing whackjob rednecks make a lot of noise but they only comprise a portion of the Trump base.

Trump Beat Hillary Because of Obama Voters in 2012 Who Voted for Trump in 2016

Understanding why Obama voters abandoned the Democrats to support Trump

The thing that Hillary just didn't get was the anger and angst of the white working class. Combine that with a lackluster campaign, Russian interference, the spread of fake news by right-wing media and a general "drain the swamp" mentality and the die was cast.

All that said, if anyone can seriously think, now that Trump's been in office for less than 200 days, that Trump was the best choice of the two, then they haven't really been paying attention.
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26-05-2017, 10:22 AM
RE: The cover-up
(26-05-2017 09:58 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  ...

All that said, if anyone can seriously think, now that Trump's been in office for less than 200 days, that Trump was the best choice of the two, then they haven't really been paying attention.

I've being paying attention and yes, I think he was the better of the two choices
(and not just for entertainment value).

So, bite me.

Tongue

Of course, had he been running on the Dem ticket, it would have been better. But that probably goes without saying.

Undecided

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