The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
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05-07-2016, 11:55 AM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(05-07-2016 11:51 AM)u196533 Wrote:  
(05-07-2016 08:14 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

I have also read ( I make no claims about understanding Tongue ) Mr Kraus' book and the previous poster is right in that he mentions both things coming into existance from noothing both in 'From space/time' as well as 'From [Nothing]'.

Am sure others with acces to more time and keyboard will he along to adress points.

My comment is I see naught more than 'Comments from credulity' from u196533.
Please look closely at Kruas' book. There is an energy density field. He even uses the words "well almost nothing" toward the end of the book to keep from being intellectually dishonest.

My argument related to life is not an argument of incredulity. It is an argument of impossibility. Life violates the laws of chemical thermodynamics.


Hello! Big Grin

Um.... Consider Except that, as far as life and evolution go, from what little I remeber of High school Biology it does not.

Again, 'Life'/'Evolution' being different from 'Abiogenesis'.

And my High school biology didn't yet include the knowledge of 'Black Smokers'.

Blush Yes.... I'm old.....
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05-07-2016, 11:56 AM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(05-07-2016 11:47 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(05-07-2016 11:35 AM)u196533 Wrote:  That movie is old. Please look into the latest research on abiogenesis. If yiou still think it is plausible, fine. Then at least you will be able to defend your beliefs in your own words without having to point to an old outdated video. When I look into it, it is implausible. Then when you layer on the chemistry/thermodynamic forces AGIANST life forming, it is a compelling argument.

...except we know that life formed, because here we are. The only question is how it happened. Is "a magic man up in the sky did it" the best you can do for an explanation?
If I had a clue, I'd collect my Nobel prize. The evidence to me suggests it cannot have occurred naturally via the known laws of physics.
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05-07-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(05-07-2016 11:55 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(05-07-2016 11:51 AM)u196533 Wrote:  Please look closely at Kruas' book. There is an energy density field. He even uses the words "well almost nothing" toward the end of the book to keep from being intellectually dishonest.

My argument related to life is not an argument of incredulity. It is an argument of impossibility. Life violates the laws of chemical thermodynamics.


Hello! Big Grin

Um.... Consider Except that, as far as life and evolution go, from what little I remeber of High school Biology it does not.

Again, 'Life'/'Evolution' being different from 'Abiogenesis'.

And my High school biology didn't yet include the knowledge of 'Black Smokers'.

Blush Yes.... I'm old.....

This is not biology. It is chemistry and thermodynamics.
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05-07-2016, 12:00 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
At work.

BUT are you talking about Abiogenesis or Evolution/Life?

I am unsure if the two are synonymous? Consider

Please, correct if in error.
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05-07-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(05-07-2016 11:54 AM)u196533 Wrote:  
(05-07-2016 11:50 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

*Raises hand again*

Am pretty sure I read a rescent article ( Yeah, New Scientist... but still. Blush ) and that some one previously mentioned about research regarding 'Lippid fats'?

Consider

Please, correct if in error.

I'd be willing to read them. There is bound to be some research that MIGHT explain one small step in a process that requires thousands of steps. However, if there was any serious breakthrough really worth digging into, it be on the news.
The fact that people are getting serious about Panspermia speaks volumes.

Panspermia solves nothing though -- it just passes the buck. Life originated somewhere. It really doesn't matter whether that happened on this planet or somewhere else. It still happened.
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05-07-2016, 12:02 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(05-07-2016 10:30 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

So... am I correct in saying that your stance is,

"We don't know, therefore a deity is/must/might/should be involved." U196533?

Also, might I inquire as to your thoughts on the two subjects?

Do you note the difference ( No time to find correct term ) between 'Evolution' and 'Abiogenesis'?

Just asking to clarify things for my self, is all. Thumbsup

I understand the difference between abiogensis and evolution.
It is not that we don't know. It is that life violates the drives of chemistry. If you were to take all of the atoms of any life form, put them in a jar and shake them up for eons, the laws of chemistry dictate that you would never see life. The atoms would be in a lower state of energy and a higher state of entropy in their constituents.
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05-07-2016, 12:03 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
At work.

Have anothet comment about life re re chemistry. Will have wait till more time and keyboard.
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05-07-2016, 12:03 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(05-07-2016 12:01 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(05-07-2016 11:54 AM)u196533 Wrote:  I'd be willing to read them. There is bound to be some research that MIGHT explain one small step in a process that requires thousands of steps. However, if there was any serious breakthrough really worth digging into, it be on the news.
The fact that people are getting serious about Panspermia speaks volumes.

Panspermia solves nothing though -- it just passes the buck. Life originated somewhere. It really doesn't matter whether that happened on this planet or somewhere else. It still happened.

Agreed. I am just pointing out the desperation.
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05-07-2016, 12:04 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(05-07-2016 12:00 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

BUT are you talking about Abiogenesis or Evolution/Life?

I am unsure if the two are synonymous? Consider

Please, correct if in error.

I do not think they are synonymous. I am not talking about Evolution.
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05-07-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(05-07-2016 12:02 PM)u196533 Wrote:  
(05-07-2016 10:30 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

So... am I correct in saying that your stance is,

"We don't know, therefore a deity is/must/might/should be involved." U196533?

Also, might I inquire as to your thoughts on the two subjects?

Do you note the difference ( No time to find correct term ) between 'Evolution' and 'Abiogenesis'?

Just asking to clarify things for my self, is all. Thumbsup

I understand the difference between abiogensis and evolution.
It is not that we don't know. It is that life violates the drives of chemistry. If you were to take all of the atoms of any life form, put them in a jar and shake them up for eons, the laws of chemistry dictate that you would never see life. The atoms would be in a lower state of energy and a higher state of entropy in their constituents.

At work.

Two false thinfs above.

1 Life does not violate chemisty. Scientists understand the chemistry that 'is' life. The atp reaction for quick example.

2 Boeing from hurrican is argument from ignorance and poor form.

No time for longer. Sad
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