The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
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29-07-2016, 11:21 AM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 09:20 AM)u196533 Wrote:  Science is inherently reductionistic.

So, I'm a little curious. Since you claim to have such an innate knowledge of science.

What papers have you submitted for publication or have had published?
What type of degrees or background do you have?

You're making some very large claims, and more importantly, very derogatory claims about science and other scientists. I think some credentials are in order.

Because it strikes me as a little odd that you're here telling us about it, when you could be winning the Nobel Prize. Why aren't you on university websites hobnobbing with the other scientists?

What qualifications do you have that justify your incredible arrogance?

You have told us more than a dozen times what science will or will not EVER be able to do. Those are fairly ambitious claims.

You claim to be a man of science, yet you repeatedly make statements about science "proving things unequivocally" and the prophetic fallacies I mentioned above.

Science does not prove things unequivocally and does not make statements about the limits of knowledge.

So far, all I'm seeing is someone who is picking at the frontiers of science and using uncertainty to justify their need for a god.

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29-07-2016, 11:31 AM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(28-07-2016 03:08 PM)u196533 Wrote:  Science cannot predict or explain them

The intellectually honest response to this dilemma is: "i dont know"
What is yours?

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29-07-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(28-07-2016 03:09 PM)u196533 Wrote:  Go ahead. Reference whatever you want to show how science can explain how those emergent properties arose. Good luck.

The intellectually honest response to this dilemma is: "i dont know"
What is yours?

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29-07-2016, 11:36 AM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(28-07-2016 03:40 PM)u196533 Wrote:  I do not accept that could have happened naturally.

And what do you know of how it happened?

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29-07-2016, 11:39 AM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(28-07-2016 04:16 PM)u196533 Wrote:  Living things seek energy to lower entropy. Non living things do not do that. That is an undeniable statement of fact.

And you havent provided anything but "i dont know" when i asked you tons of questions about the details of your argument(s) why.

So what was your intellectually honest answer again?

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29-07-2016, 11:40 AM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(28-07-2016 04:18 PM)u196533 Wrote:  Since the laws of our universe state that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it is logical to conclude that something outside our universe created it and put it here.

Most of us arent interested in what you think is logic or not, but what you can demonstrate to be real.

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29-07-2016, 11:45 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2016 12:24 PM by Deesse23.)
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(28-07-2016 04:21 PM)u196533 Wrote:  Therefore it is not unreasonable to think that something outside our universe created the energy and put it into our universe.

Says who? A guy who thinks atoms in living matter behave different from non-living matter, and who has nothing else to say than "i dont know" when asked "why"? This guy thinks its reasonable?

Btw: how did this "thing" *create" the energy in violation of the 1st thermo? Are you assuming the 1st thermo is invalid outside of the universe? How can you (actually you have to, or your statement would be incoherent as already pointed out to you) state that the 1st thermo does not apply outside of the universe, when everything you do have (the universe) to base your knowledge on is affected by the 1st thermo? Or are you pulling stuff right out of...well, from outside of the universe?
How did it "create" without time? And how did it "put" without space? Was this "thing" conscious?

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29-07-2016, 11:46 AM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2016 12:15 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(28-07-2016 04:18 PM)u196533 Wrote:  Since the laws of our universe state that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it is logical to conclude that something outside our universe created it and put it here.

That is a remarkably ignorant thing to say.
To say something is "outside" space-time is meaningless.
(It's also a perfect example of a non-sequitur). You've attempted to connect two unconnected things. The laws of the universe apply to ONLY the universe, not to what might be external to it. If you invoke the laws of the universe, you must find your answer inside it. You know nothing except the universe, AND as as been pointed out, you know about only a tiny fraction of it, (5 %). The universe also has been proven to be non-intuitive ... Relativity, Uncertainty and some math are not "logical".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-07-2016, 12:09 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 11:21 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(29-07-2016 09:20 AM)u196533 Wrote:  Science is inherently reductionistic.

So, I'm a little curious. Since you claim to have such an innate knowledge of science.

What papers have you submitted for publication or have had published?
What type of degrees or background do you have?

You're making some very large claims, and more importantly, very derogatory claims about science and other scientists. I think some credentials are in order.

Because it strikes me as a little odd that you're here telling us about it, when you could be winning the Nobel Prize. Why aren't you on university websites hobnobbing with the other scientists?

What qualifications do you have that justify your incredible arrogance?

You have told us more than a dozen times what science will or will not EVER be able to do. Those are fairly ambitious claims.

You claim to be a man of science, yet you repeatedly make statements about science "proving things unequivocally" and the prophetic fallacies I mentioned above.

Science does not prove things unequivocally and does not make statements about the limits of knowledge.

So far, all I'm seeing is someone who is picking at the frontiers of science and using uncertainty to justify their need for a god.

I have degrees in engineering. The things I have proposed are not advanced concepts. I learned them as an undergrad. I took the basic concept that chemicals drive to lower energy and increase entropy, and applied it to the narrative of abiogenesis.
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29-07-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
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