The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
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29-07-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 08:37 AM)u196533 Wrote:  (the emergence of which has never been explained)....
...I see a creator as the most reasonable alternative

Argument from ignorance, the most basic of all fallacies?

P.S.: Male or female.....the creator i mean?

My most reasonable alternative is a universe creating sausage (i love sausages). Its not sentient, its not omni-anything, it doesnt even survive the process of creating. Its just there to create universes and ceases to exist once they are created, like every other universe creating sausage that has created other universes.

How is that less or more reasonable than your alternative please?

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29-07-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 12:09 PM)u196533 Wrote:  
(29-07-2016 11:21 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  So, I'm a little curious. Since you claim to have such an innate knowledge of science.

What papers have you submitted for publication or have had published?
What type of degrees or background do you have?

You're making some very large claims, and more importantly, very derogatory claims about science and other scientists. I think some credentials are in order.

Because it strikes me as a little odd that you're here telling us about it, when you could be winning the Nobel Prize. Why aren't you on university websites hobnobbing with the other scientists?

What qualifications do you have that justify your incredible arrogance?

You have told us more than a dozen times what science will or will not EVER be able to do. Those are fairly ambitious claims.

You claim to be a man of science, yet you repeatedly make statements about science "proving things unequivocally" and the prophetic fallacies I mentioned above.

Science does not prove things unequivocally and does not make statements about the limits of knowledge.

So far, all I'm seeing is someone who is picking at the frontiers of science and using uncertainty to justify their need for a god.

I have degrees in engineering. The things I have proposed are not advanced concepts. I learned them as an undergrad. I took the basic concept that chemicals drive to lower energy and increase entropy, and applied it to the narrative of abiogenesis.

But they don't apply to Biology or biological systems, or phenomena that emerge from complex biological systems, (such as consciousness). You have no clue what you're talking about. Now we know why you say such idiotic things, (such as "atoms behave differently in living things".) Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-07-2016, 12:15 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 08:44 AM)u196533 Wrote:  A century of research, and they aren't even out of the staring blocks.

Therefore "creator"?

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29-07-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 09:20 AM)u196533 Wrote:  (first cause)

First class nosense, and you should know it.

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29-07-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
They are "out of the starting blocks", u just doesn't know what has been accomplished. The Manchester (England) group, proved that what u said can't happen with RNA, indeed happens spontaneously, and he knows so little of what they did, he can't even discuss it.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-07-2016, 12:26 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 08:44 AM)u196533 Wrote:  A century of research, and they aren't even out of the staring blocks.

How many centuries did it take for flight?

How many centuries did it take for antibiotics?

How many centuries did it take for vaccines?

How many centuries did it take for steel?

Shall I go on?

"They think, therefore I am" - god
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29-07-2016, 01:16 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 12:12 PM)u196533 Wrote:  You are still not recognizing the fact that those chemicals would be moving further from equilibrium with each step of complexity. That makes them unstable. Unstable chemicals (like nucleic acids) break apart when exposed to energy.

Facepalm

http://web.ornl.gov/~webworks/cpr/misc/107675_.pdf
"DNA melting, RNA melting, duplex stability, base pairing
Doktycz, Mitchel J.
Oak Ridge National Laboratory, USA
Nucleic acid structures can have different stabilities that depend on a variety of
factors that include the nucleic acid sequence, the structure adopted, and the solution
environment. Together, these factors influence the thermal stability of the complex"

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-07-2016, 01:35 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 12:09 PM)u196533 Wrote:  I have degrees in engineering. The things I have proposed are not advanced concepts. I learned them as an undergrad. I took the basic concept that chemicals drive to lower energy and increase entropy, and applied it to the narrative of abiogenesis.

That makes a lot of sense. You have taken concepts and extrapolated them into an area where you are unqualified to apply them correctly.

Dunning-Kruger FTW

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29-07-2016, 02:32 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 11:39 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(28-07-2016 04:16 PM)u196533 Wrote:  Living things seek energy to lower entropy. Non living things do not do that. That is an undeniable statement of fact.

And you havent provided anything but "i dont know" when i asked you tons of questions about the details of your argument(s) why.

So what was your intellectually honest answer again?

Science cannot analyze sodium and chloride and determine that if you combine them it would taste good on a pretzel. I can accept some emergent properties as natural even if science cannot explain them.
However, the emergence of self-preservation in pre-biotic chemical systems is a bit of a stretch. This is especially true given that those atoms collectively would be in a lower state of energy and a high state of entropy if they were to just decompose. There is a drive to decompose, yet they defied it. It is not unreasonable to conclude there must be some invisible force that only acts on living things driving them to do so given that this behavior has never been observed in inanimate objects.
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29-07-2016, 02:37 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(29-07-2016 12:15 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(29-07-2016 08:44 AM)u196533 Wrote:  A century of research, and they aren't even out of the staring blocks.

Therefore "creator"?
I used to believe in abiogenesis. The facts led to me to change my mind. Your faith is stronger than mine I guess.
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