The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
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04-08-2016, 04:54 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(04-08-2016 04:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I feel bad showing you your ignorance. Clearly someone (me) who studies the linkage between life and climate/environment is not well suited to know about abiogenesis and you (an engineer) somehow are. Fuck logic, amirite?

No you aint right. It is not my background in engineering (which required a lot of chemistry etc.). It is the fact that I used my basic knowledge to read a lot of papers and follow the research for years that makes me qualified to discuss it.

Studying the linkage between life and climate/environment doesn't automatically make you an expert if you haven't put in the time and research into that specific area of study.
Rather than attack my argument (which is based on chem 101), you try to discredit me.
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04-08-2016, 04:58 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(04-08-2016 04:35 PM)u196533 Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 03:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I said they have no COMPLETE explanation ... YET. That does not provide any reason to stop experimenting. The study of abiogenesis in NOT "hard core chemistry". It's (complex) Biology, of which you have proven yourself to be totally ignorant. "Your definition of "emergent property" is meaningless. Consciousness can be easily explained. Sensory input, rapidly referenced to memory (stored as we know has been proven by DNA) produces the sensation of consciousness. There is NOT ONE example of a conscious being who has a damaged brain. It's not Creationist woo-bullshit. The answer is physical, as any Neuro-scientist knows.

No they have no explanation for the emergence of a mind. Science cannot analyze a brain, nerve, spinal chord etc. and explain its emergence.

Wrong pops. They do. You are just too out of touch and know NOTHING of how far Neuro-science has come. They can watch thoughts happen on PET scans, and parts of the brain light up on MRIs. You are simply totally ignorant of Life Sciences. You're stuck in the DISTANT past.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-08-2016, 04:58 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(04-08-2016 04:54 PM)u196533 Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 04:33 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I feel bad showing you your ignorance. Clearly someone (me) who studies the linkage between life and climate/environment is not well suited to know about abiogenesis and you (an engineer) somehow are. Fuck logic, amirite?

No you aint right. It is not my background in engineering (which required a lot of chemistry etc.). It is the fact that I used my basic knowledge to read a lot of papers and follow the research for years that makes me qualified to discuss it.

Studying the linkage between life and climate/environment doesn't automatically make you an expert if you haven't put in the time and research into that specific area of study.
Rather than attack my argument (which is based on chem 101), you try to discredit me.

You discredit yourself and when that's pointed out, you continue to assert that you know more science than scientists.

It's your use of "chem 101" that is the problem. Not only your misunderstandings, but your rudimentary approach to try and apply what you think is basic chemistry to a problem in a rigid way.

Here is a tip, scientists researching the ancient evidence for the earliest forms of life, and it's probable cause, aren't merely chemists or geologists or paleontologists. In fact, it's rarely a single person even doing the research because of the need for multiple experts to comb through the data to draw meaningful conclusions. But you seem to think you know more than those who study these hypotheses as a career.

So yes, a portion of my responses as of late are to point out your lack of qualifications.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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04-08-2016, 04:58 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(04-08-2016 02:39 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 02:23 PM)u196533 Wrote:  Therefore it is logical to conclude that something that predates and exists outside of our known universe put it there.
We have no idea what existed prior to the Big Bang.

Please explain how "predate" works without time existing. Please explain how "outside" works without space. Repeating falshoods doesnt make them true, no matter how hard you try. What are you trying here even? To be a scientist or a philosopher? Please make up your mind. If you are trying to be a philosopher we can grab each others dick and argue all day long about the stuff outside and prior to our universe, without time or space to be there. If you try to be a scientist, you should stop at "we have no idea" and delete the rest of your statement.

And again your are trying to smuggle entities in ("something.....put it there") where its not warranted. Why so?
And then you contradict yourself immediately. If we dont know, how do you know the energy was "put there"? Maybe by one of my universe creating unicorns?

(04-08-2016 02:23 PM)u196533 Wrote:  We have no idea what existed prior to the Big Bang. Stating that existence outside space time is meaningless is completely unfounded.

Nope, "existence" needs a time and a place to exist, doesnt it? If not, then please explain how existence outside of spacetime is meaningful.
Please explain as well what and how "prior to time" is.

Space time exists for OUR known universe. There can be other universes of which we are unaware. Many physicists propose alternate universes. we THINK time started at the Big Bang for OUR universe, but that would not necessarily apply to something outside our universe.

The clock on your phone didn't start until the phone was assembled. That doesn't mean that the kid in China was late for work on the day he assembled it.
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04-08-2016, 04:59 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(04-08-2016 04:44 PM)u196533 Wrote:  I do know that science cannot explain the emergence of the mind.

Science has not yet been able to fully explain the mind. That does mean that it cannot or that it will not. Jumping from "we do not know" to "we cannot know" is not warranted.

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04-08-2016, 05:01 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(04-08-2016 04:58 PM)u196533 Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 02:39 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Please explain how "predate" works without time existing. Please explain how "outside" works without space. Repeating falshoods doesnt make them true, no matter how hard you try. What are you trying here even? To be a scientist or a philosopher? Please make up your mind. If you are trying to be a philosopher we can grab each others dick and argue all day long about the stuff outside and prior to our universe, without time or space to be there. If you try to be a scientist, you should stop at "we have no idea" and delete the rest of your statement.

And again your are trying to smuggle entities in ("something.....put it there") where its not warranted. Why so?
And then you contradict yourself immediately. If we dont know, how do you know the energy was "put there"? Maybe by one of my universe creating unicorns?


Nope, "existence" needs a time and a place to exist, doesnt it? If not, then please explain how existence outside of spacetime is meaningful.
Please explain as well what and how "prior to time" is.

Space time exists for OUR known universe. There can be other universes of which we are unaware. Many physicists propose alternate universes. we THINK time started at the Big Bang for OUR universe, but that would not necessarily apply to something outside our universe.

The clock on your phone didn't start until the phone was assembled. That doesn't mean that the kid in China was late for work on the day he assembled it.

Argument from ignorance and intelligent design bullshit. Drinking Beverage

Fuck me, I've never thought about ID before. Anyone else here on this atheist site ever hear of this really fucking convincing argument? I mean, a watch! Who fucking knew a watch as an example would unravel science so easily!

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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04-08-2016, 05:03 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(04-08-2016 04:58 PM)u196533 Wrote:  we THINK time started at the Big Bang for OUR universe, but that would not necessarily apply to something outside our universe.

You know nothing of anything apart from this universe. Your entire premise is that your "supernatural" bullshit is external to it. It is meaningless.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-08-2016, 05:04 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(04-08-2016 05:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 04:58 PM)u196533 Wrote:  we THINK time started at the Big Bang for OUR universe, but that would not necessarily apply to something outside our universe.

You know nothing of anything apart from this universe. Your entire premise is that your "supernatural" bullshit is external to it. It is meaningless.

But a fucking watch BB! Did you know that your watch needed a maker?!!! Life must have been made by a fucking god man! It's so clear now! Fuck science, I'll just burn my dissertation now. Time to go into the ministry or engineering.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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04-08-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
(04-08-2016 04:58 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(04-08-2016 04:35 PM)u196533 Wrote:  No they have no explanation for the emergence of a mind. Science cannot analyze a brain, nerve, spinal chord etc. and explain its emergence.

Wrong pops. They do. You are just too out of touch and know NOTHING of how far Neuro-science has come. They can watch thoughts happen on PET scans, and parts of the brain light up on MRIs. You are simply totally ignorant of Life Sciences. You're stuck in the DISTANT past.

Watching the brain light up on MRIs does not explain the emergence of a mind from its components.
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04-08-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: The creation of the universe is "beyond the remit of science".
Quote:You know nothing of anything apart from this universe. Your entire premise is that your "supernatural" bullshit is external to it. It is meaningless.
isn't it great, when the evidence does not exist here you can create somewhere else to work from. Very handy for 'proving' your theory.
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