The cross at Ground Zero
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10-03-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
(10-03-2014 03:11 PM)rampant.a.i. Wrote:  I just don't understand the symbolism. A horrible tragedy like this one deserves more thought than "Welp, all part of God's Plan" comfort, especially one caused by religion.

They think they are in a christian heaven so makes some sort of sense.
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10-03-2014, 03:33 PM
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
I think part of my issue is, I don't see what the big deal is legally. I do not see this as government endorsement of religion, even if the government were running this museum 100 percent. It's not like the museum is saying this was a sign from God. At most, the museum is saying that a lot of people took it as a sign of hope from God, and I don't see how any reasonable person, atheist or theist, could argue otherwise.

To me, it comes down to that one question: is government, by displaying that cross, endorsing a religion? I think the clear answer is no. The government is acknowledging that, at that dark moment in our history, the people of New York (and the USA) found inspiration in that particular piece of wreckage, for religious reasons. I don't see the constitutional problem.
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10-03-2014, 04:26 PM
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
Agreed, I saw this was being fought, and cringed. I think they picked a bad fight here. I don't see any reason it can't stay.

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10-03-2014, 04:30 PM
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
The thing that I find annoying with these religious things is that if some symbol from any other religion were found in the wreckage and put in the museum instead of a cross, Christians would be screaming bloody murder.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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10-03-2014, 04:33 PM
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
It's interesting that people who are dead don't give a shit what people put up there.
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10-03-2014, 04:34 PM
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
(10-03-2014 04:26 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  Agreed, I saw this was being fought, and cringed. I think they picked a bad fight here. I don't see any reason it can't stay.

Yeah, they really need to pick their spots better. This is one of those times where the people doing this really make all Atheists look like assholes.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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10-03-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
Personally, I'm not a fan of that cross being there.

Mostly because people insisting on it being there is stupid. It should be repurposed into something legitimately useful if at all possible, not just be placed somewhere and left to rust.
Also, because it's not special. It's not at all unique or worthy of any sort of attention; I daresay if you looked through the rubble of a building like that and didn't find a cross shape I'd be surprised, 'cause it's kind of a key part of the structure!

Plus, I'm not a fan of that sort of behaviour to begin with, it doesn't sit right with me.

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10-03-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
(10-03-2014 03:33 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  To me, it comes down to that one question: is government, by displaying that cross, endorsing a religion? I think the clear answer is no. The government is acknowledging that, at that dark moment in our history, the people of New York (and the USA) found inspiration in that particular piece of wreckage, for religious reasons.

I agree. This is not the Ten Commandments in front of a courthouse. It's history. Let it go.

Just one correction:

"The government is acknowledging that, at that dark moment in our history, the some people of New York (and the USA) found inspiration in that particular piece of wreckage, for religious reasons."

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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10-03-2014, 09:49 PM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2014 09:53 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
(10-03-2014 02:05 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  I think I side with the theists on this one. Not that I believe the cross at Ground Zero means anything in the religious sense, but I do think it's a piece of history, and there's no denying that people took some measure of comfort in finding this symbol in the wreckage of the World Trade Center.


Anyone else think atheists are overreaching on this one?

http://www.today.com/news/world-trade-ce...2D79328902

Sure, leave it there. But right next to it have a wall high photograph of the standing Twin Towers and next to that another of the rubble after the attacks, with the captions "A reminder to all where your god was that day".

It's not government endorsing a religion, and I would find some comfort in it... Dodgy

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10-03-2014, 10:40 PM
RE: The cross at Ground Zero
(10-03-2014 02:52 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(10-03-2014 02:05 PM)TwoCultSurvivor Wrote:  I think I side with the theists on this one. Not that I believe the cross at Ground Zero means anything in the religious sense, but I do think it's a piece of history, and there's no denying that people took some measure of comfort in finding this symbol in the wreckage of the World Trade Center.


Anyone else think atheists are overreaching on this one?

http://www.today.com/news/world-trade-ce...2D79328902

Doesnt bother me personally, but funny how "god", yet again, stood idly by while great evil happened.

Wth is wrong with you? God worked in mysterious ways to create for us a beautiful steel cross and all you can do is whine about the "evils" that were necessary to create it? Show some appreciation for god's crafty artwork you neanderthal!

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