The darkening of the Earth...need sources
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21-08-2017, 01:16 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2017 01:36 PM by Loom.)
The darkening of the Earth...need sources
I'm abit short on time but I know some of you guys are well versed with verses and stoof.

As I watched the eclipse with my dad, he brought up the darkening of the Earth when Christ purportedly died (way to ruin the awesome cosmic moment). He cited 'atheist' sources confirming the darkness, telling me how philosopher Nero had written about it.

I mentioned no other historian or anyone literate at the time wrote of the darkness, the earth shaking, and the dead rising to appear to many (he wasn't aware of this particular bit). Most secular 'accounts' were probably forgeries. It's possible a volcanic eruption blotted out light, but there was no physical way for the sun to go dark without serious ramifications.

To which he asked me my thoughts if the moon really did cover the sun for hours. I replied if the moon had suddenly stopped, the Earth would certainly shake. There would also be monstrous waves that would wipe out the coastlines and life would take a serious beating. He agreed with me, in a smug sort of 'Well god used his powers break physics and keep that from happening,'

Dodgy

Anyway.

I know it's all bunk but I'm no debater and I need some sources to back myself up on the 'accounts' of the darkening of the Earth and whatnot.

Edit: why did he ever have to bring up religion? January 1st is when I plan to be out of the house. That was already known. But he's now texted me a paragraph on making sure I'm out by then. And how he's failed me and can't fathom why I 'reject' Christ.

Why did he have to bring up religion!

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21-08-2017, 01:34 PM
RE: The darkening of the Earth...need sources
Considering no one know's WHEN jesus supposedly died, it would be impossible to determine if the "sky darkened" in the claim. Period. Now thanks to the reliability in the universe (which contradicts the bible anyway) it would be easy to determine the validity of said claim IF we even had some clue as to when the events in question supposedly took place.

He's full of shit. Ask for the exact place Nero mentions "Jesus." Please do.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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21-08-2017, 01:38 PM
RE: The darkening of the Earth...need sources
Eclipses both solar and lunar are measurable predictable events, and thanks to the wondrous magic that is known as MATH we can even go back in time and determine with near pinpoint accuracy when they have occurred in the past too.

However I can't give you any references to your query as none exist. Humans have always known about eclipses. So vague references to the fact that they sometimes happen is... well... duh. What's your point?

Oh and the moon covering the sun for hours? shit like that? Bullshit. For that to be true physics couldn't be reliable enough for your dads cell phone or computer to exist. That simple.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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21-08-2017, 01:43 PM
RE: The darkening of the Earth...need sources
The NT says darkness occurred for 3 hours. An eclipse lasts just a few minutes. So the supposed darkness was not an eclipse. And there is no mention of this darkness outside of the gospel of Matthew.

Matthew 27
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land.

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21-08-2017, 01:46 PM
RE: The darkening of the Earth...need sources
(21-08-2017 01:43 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  The NT says darkness occurred for 3 hours. An eclipse lasts just a few minutes. So the supposed darkness was not an eclipse. And there is no mention of this darkness outside of the gospel of Matthew.

Matthew 27
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land.

You have few options there.

1 the event is a work of fiction entirely

2 an eclipse did happen however people embellished the truth and it didn't last 3 hours

3 It is an event that only occurred once and never again leaving absolutely no evidence (aka non falsifiable claim) and can not be demonstrated to have happened and only a complete idiot would blindly accept such a ridiculous claim.


I'll let ya'll decide which one it was.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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21-08-2017, 01:51 PM
RE: The darkening of the Earth...need sources
Loom, I hope this has helped, however your best approach isn't to try and dig up sources. You need to apply the Socratic method. Also ask your dad to show you HIS evidence first, then respond. You're shooting yourself in the foot looking to refute an argument when he hasn't anchored himself to his claim with evidence. You dig up all the evidence you want and he'll just move the goal posts UNLESS you get a solid commitment on exactly what his claim is and the supportive evidence first.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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21-08-2017, 01:52 PM
RE: The darkening of the Earth...need sources
(21-08-2017 01:46 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(21-08-2017 01:43 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  The NT says darkness occurred for 3 hours. An eclipse lasts just a few minutes. So the supposed darkness was not an eclipse. And there is no mention of this darkness outside of the gospel of Matthew.

Matthew 27
45 From noon until three in the afternoon darkness came over all the land.

You have few options there.

1 the event is a work of fiction entirely

2 an eclipse did happen however people embellished the truth and it didn't last 3 hours

3 It is an event that only occurred once and never again leaving absolutely no evidence (aka non falsifiable claim) and can not be demonstrated to have happened and only a complete idiot would blindly accept such a ridiculous claim.


I'll let ya'll decide which one it was.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say maybe it was a metaphorical darkness instead of a literal one.

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21-08-2017, 01:53 PM
RE: The darkening of the Earth...need sources
(21-08-2017 01:52 PM)LostLocke Wrote:  
(21-08-2017 01:46 PM)JesseB Wrote:  You have few options there.

1 the event is a work of fiction entirely

2 an eclipse did happen however people embellished the truth and it didn't last 3 hours

3 It is an event that only occurred once and never again leaving absolutely no evidence (aka non falsifiable claim) and can not be demonstrated to have happened and only a complete idiot would blindly accept such a ridiculous claim.


I'll let ya'll decide which one it was.
I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say maybe it was a metaphorical darkness instead of a literal one.

Hehe indeed, however based on the implied claim I would consider this moving the goal posts which I later suggested Loom address before making a counter argument.

Edit^ Great example of how these things can play out though if you don't get them to commit to what they mean before formulating a counter argument though, thanks!

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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21-08-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: The darkening of the Earth...need sources
The "philosopher" Nero huh? Laugh out load That's a new one. Nero was famous not for philosophy but for being one of the cruelest and craziest of a famously cruel and crazy dynasty of Roman emporers. Well, Caligula was pretty strong competition...

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21-08-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: The darkening of the Earth...need sources
(21-08-2017 01:16 PM)Loom Wrote:  I'm a bit short on time but I know some of you guys are well versed with verses and stuff. As I watched the eclipse with my dad, he brought up the darkening of the Earth when Christ purportedly died (way to ruin the awesome cosmic moment). He cited 'atheist' sources confirming the darkness, telling me how philosopher Nero had written about it...

Your dad—like many religionists—is misrepresenting natural solar events, conflating them with biblical scripture, and drawing false conclusions.

The fact that Jesus was most probably crucified on April 3, 33AD has been agreed upon by scholars (whether it's ultimately true or not is another thing entirely). There was a partial lunar eclipse visible from Jerusalem when the moon rose on that night.

On the day of Pentecost, as Peter preaches, he quotes a prophecy from Joel 2:31 telling the assembled crowd that "the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood .

A lunar eclipse can make the moon appear reddish (a so-called "blood moon"), and Peter may be alluding to the lunar eclipse that occurred a few weeks earlier, on April 3 of 33AD—the night that Jesus purportedly lay in the tomb.

If you consider this symbolism—Jesus had just shed his blood, and now the moon in the sky seems to bleed, it's no wonder Peter might've see this as the fulfillment of a prophecy.

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