The debate
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30-09-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: The debate
(28-09-2016 02:32 PM)morondog Wrote:  
Quote:And, going into debt generally is within my control, but the cost of college is completely outside my control. The costs are staggering and beyond most people's ability to cover with cash. That's why the US has roughly a trillion dollars in student loan debt. Because people can't afford it.
Ah, so *paying for your kids to go to college* is what will drive you into massive debt. And *Hillary* makes you pay for them to go to college?

This is not my argument, but I'm going to jump in here with some numbers. I really don't know what elementary and high school education costs, but post-high school costs in the US are ridiculous. If I wanted to go back to school and finish up my degree, the obvious choice would be the University of Wisconsin, since the campus is only about 6 miles from my home here in Madison, WI -- so no room and board expense for me. But the tuition alone is over $10,000 per year, and if you want to live on campus, you can add another $10,000. Total estimated cost per year (including books and miscellaneous fees) for an in-state student is about $25,000 per year. Out-of-state students pay substantially more. Note: this is not some fancy private school -- it's a public college.

I honestly don't know what Clinton has to do with any of that, though. She's not responsible for the cost of college, and I'm not aware that she's going to do anything to increase that cost. Nor do I think Trump would do anything to decrease it. Bernie Sanders promised to decrease it, but I'm quite skeptical about how he expected to finance that. I like Bernie, and a lot of his proposals sound good, but the math doesn't seem to add up.

Short version: (1) In the US, a college education is horrendously expensive. (2) That's not Hillary Clinton's fault.
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01-10-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: The debate



#sigh
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01-10-2016, 12:44 PM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2016 12:50 PM by Lord Dark Helmet.)
RE: The debate
(30-09-2016 01:13 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(28-09-2016 02:32 PM)morondog Wrote:  Ah, so *paying for your kids to go to college* is what will drive you into massive debt. And *Hillary* makes you pay for them to go to college?

This is not my argument, but I'm going to jump in here with some numbers. I really don't know what elementary and high school education costs, but post-high school costs in the US are ridiculous. If I wanted to go back to school and finish up my degree, the obvious choice would be the University of Wisconsin, since the campus is only about 6 miles from my home here in Madison, WI -- so no room and board expense for me. But the tuition alone is over $10,000 per year, and if you want to live on campus, you can add another $10,000. Total estimated cost per year (including books and miscellaneous fees) for an in-state student is about $25,000 per year. Out-of-state students pay substantially more. Note: this is not some fancy private school -- it's a public college.

I honestly don't know what Clinton has to do with any of that, though. She's not responsible for the cost of college, and I'm not aware that she's going to do anything to increase that cost. Nor do I think Trump would do anything to decrease it. Bernie Sanders promised to decrease it, but I'm quite skeptical about how he expected to finance that. I like Bernie, and a lot of his proposals sound good, but the math doesn't seem to add up.

Short version: (1) In the US, a college education is horrendously expensive. (2) That's not Hillary Clinton's fault.

All of you kind of missed BnW's point. I read it as the high cost of tuition along with the increased taxes he would pay under her tax plan as his issue.

How many of you had a job when Bill Clinton was president? I remember 1/3 of my check going to taxes. I have no desire to go back to that.

Younger workers that have only experienced the Bush/Obama era tax cuts are going to be in for a surpise when an extra 10% of their paycheck is gone.

"Evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." - Lord Dark Helmet
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01-10-2016, 02:51 PM
RE: The debate
As much as I dislike Hillary I actually felt the tiniest bit sorry for her having to deal with Trump during this debate. I would have liked to see the moderator call Hillary on her bs too though.
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01-10-2016, 03:00 PM
RE: The debate
(30-09-2016 01:13 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(28-09-2016 02:32 PM)morondog Wrote:  Ah, so *paying for your kids to go to college* is what will drive you into massive debt. And *Hillary* makes you pay for them to go to college?

...Bernie Sanders promised to decrease it, but I'm quite skeptical about how he expected to finance that. I like Bernie, and a lot of his proposals sound good, but the math doesn't seem to add up.

From my understanding he would have paid for it by taxing stock market trades. It should have been more than enough to cover expenses. Not to mention we bailed their asses out.

We somehow have billions to spend dropping bombs on foreign soil though. No one ever asks how we expect to pay for that! But investing in our own people "seems fishy" or "doesn't add up".
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01-10-2016, 03:15 PM
RE: The debate
(01-10-2016 12:44 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(30-09-2016 01:13 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  This is not my argument, but I'm going to jump in here with some numbers. I really don't know what elementary and high school education costs, but post-high school costs in the US are ridiculous. If I wanted to go back to school and finish up my degree, the obvious choice would be the University of Wisconsin, since the campus is only about 6 miles from my home here in Madison, WI -- so no room and board expense for me. But the tuition alone is over $10,000 per year, and if you want to live on campus, you can add another $10,000. Total estimated cost per year (including books and miscellaneous fees) for an in-state student is about $25,000 per year. Out-of-state students pay substantially more. Note: this is not some fancy private school -- it's a public college.

I honestly don't know what Clinton has to do with any of that, though. She's not responsible for the cost of college, and I'm not aware that she's going to do anything to increase that cost. Nor do I think Trump would do anything to decrease it. Bernie Sanders promised to decrease it, but I'm quite skeptical about how he expected to finance that. I like Bernie, and a lot of his proposals sound good, but the math doesn't seem to add up.

Short version: (1) In the US, a college education is horrendously expensive. (2) That's not Hillary Clinton's fault.

All of you kind of missed BnW's point. I read it as the high cost of tuition along with the increased taxes he would pay under her tax plan as his issue.

How many of you had a job when Bill Clinton was president? I remember 1/3 of my check going to taxes. I have no desire to go back to that.

Younger workers that have only experienced the Bush/Obama era tax cuts are going to be in for a surpise when an extra 10% of their paycheck is gone.

Under Trump, you wouldn't have had a job if he were prez in the 90s

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01-10-2016, 04:22 PM
RE: The debate
(01-10-2016 12:44 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  How many of you had a job when Bill Clinton was president? I remember 1/3 of my check going to taxes. I have no desire to go back to that.
Tax brackets haven't changed much since Clinton(scroll down to the bottom part of the linked page) - only by 2-3% unless you're in the higher income brackets in which case I don't feel sorry about how much taxes you pay. Also, tax percentage isn't the only consideration. I'd be more inclined to look at net income. If you were getting paid more and paid 2% more taxes, your net income might have been higher, for example, which would mean you were better off.

Incidentally, Clinton is only talking about raising taxes on the rich. I think she is well aware that times are different today than they were in the 90's and raising taxes on the middle or lower classes would be a mistake.

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03-10-2016, 12:54 AM
RE: The debate
(01-10-2016 04:22 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(01-10-2016 12:44 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  How many of you had a job when Bill Clinton was president? I remember 1/3 of my check going to taxes. I have no desire to go back to that.
Tax brackets haven't changed much since Clinton(scroll down to the bottom part of the linked page) - only by 2-3% unless you're in the higher income brackets in which case I don't feel sorry about how much taxes you pay. Also, tax percentage isn't the only consideration. I'd be more inclined to look at net income. If you were getting paid more and paid 2% more taxes, your net income might have been higher, for example, which would mean you were better off.

Incidentally, Clinton is only talking about raising taxes on the rich. I think she is well aware that times are different today than they were in the 90's and raising taxes on the middle or lower classes would be a mistake.

LDH does make a fair amount IIRC.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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04-10-2016, 07:08 PM
RE: The debate
Might as well keep this thread going for ALL THE DEBATES.

VP debate just started...

Anyone watching it?!

I also heard the GOP already announced that Pence already won, even highlighting how well he did on key issues...

I thought this debate was live?


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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04-10-2016, 07:11 PM
RE: The debate
(04-10-2016 07:08 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Might as well keep this thread going for ALL THE DEBATES.

VP debate just started...

Anyone watching it?!

I also heard the GOP already announced that Pence already won, even highlighting how well he did on key issues...

I thought this debate was live?

It says it's live. Spinning already I guess. No
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