The demise of guys
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05-08-2011, 11:16 AM
The demise of guys
http://www.ted.com/talks/zimchallenge.html

In this video renowned professor Philip Zimbardo (yes, he of the Stanford Prison Experiment) gives his take about men in society. His theory is that guys are falling behind in the modern society: they have more learning problems, they don't do as well in school, they have trouble socializing. He seems to point the finger mostly to videogames and Internet.

What do you think?

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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05-08-2011, 12:12 PM
RE: The demise of guys
I seriously doubt it has anything to do with video games or the Internet. The success rate for males had been declining before the Internet. I also know many female gamers who are dong well in education. So it would affect them in the same way as males.
The problem is the way education systems are set up in western country's happens to be the best way for females to learn which is why they are doing better than their male counterparts.
There was an experiment made into a tv show over here who's name I can't remember(if I find out il post it) where boys got taken out of the class room and taught by using a more hands on approach to education stuff like physical activity etc rather than sitting learning from books. And their grades dramatically improved. I'll have a look and see if I can find out the name of it.

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05-08-2011, 02:16 PM
RE: The demise of guys
(05-08-2011 12:12 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  I seriously doubt it has anything to do with video games or the Internet. The success rate for males had been declining before the Internet. I also know many female gamers who are dong well in education. So it would affect them in the same way as males.
Both are true I guess, but I wonder if there isn't some bit of true also. Men are less socially adept than women (no offense to anybody) and I can see that more impersonal media like videogames, social media, etc would appeal to them. But socialization is a learned skill, and moreover can only be learned in practice, so the less "real life" socialization you do the worse you are at it, and if women already have a head start in the social "game" I certainly can see men getting left behind there.

Quote:The problem is the way education systems are set up in western country's happens to be the best way for females to learn which is why they are doing better than their male counterparts.
You know, I have given some thought to this and it really surprises me because education used to be mostly for boys, so why would the education system be set up in a way that doesn't privilege male ways of learning? In fact if anything, older education methods were even less hands on and more rigid and disciplined. I find it rather puzzling.

Quote:There was an experiment made into a tv show over here who's name I can't remember(if I find out il post it) where boys got taken out of the class room and taught by using a more hands on approach to education stuff like physical activity etc rather than sitting learning from books. And their grades dramatically improved. I'll have a look and see if I can find out the name of it.
I can certainly believe it! And yet as I said, older methods of education, which were developed when boys made up the majority of students, were even less hands on and more "sit still and quiet and listen".

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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05-08-2011, 02:34 PM
RE: The demise of guys
(05-08-2011 12:12 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  I seriously doubt it has anything to do with video games or the Internet. The success rate for males had been declining before the Internet. I also know many female gamers who are dong well in education. So it would affect them in the same way as males.
The problem is the way education systems are set up in western country's happens to be the best way for females to learn which is why they are doing better than their male counterparts.
There was an experiment made into a tv show over here who's name I can't remember(if I find out il post it) where boys got taken out of the class room and taught by using a more hands on approach to education stuff like physical activity etc rather than sitting learning from books. And their grades dramatically improved. I'll have a look and see if I can find out the name of it.

I heard about that. Didn't it used to be set up to benefit males (as traditionally only boys went to school) and a few decades ago, while boys were achieving far more than girls, they decided this was sexist so rather than level things out equally they skewed it to dramatically favour females?

Typical human reaction really, we can never have things equal, we discriminate against a group, then we realise that what we are doing is wrong but rather than stop discriminating we then just discriminate against everyone else instead.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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05-08-2011, 02:41 PM
RE: The demise of guys
(05-08-2011 02:34 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(05-08-2011 12:12 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  I seriously doubt it has anything to do with video games or the Internet. The success rate for males had been declining before the Internet. I also know many female gamers who are dong well in education. So it would affect them in the same way as males.
The problem is the way education systems are set up in western country's happens to be the best way for females to learn which is why they are doing better than their male counterparts.
There was an experiment made into a tv show over here who's name I can't remember(if I find out il post it) where boys got taken out of the class room and taught by using a more hands on approach to education stuff like physical activity etc rather than sitting learning from books. And their grades dramatically improved. I'll have a look and see if I can find out the name of it.

I heard about that. Didn't it used to be set up to benefit males (as traditionally only boys went to school) and a few decades ago, while boys were achieving far more than girls, they decided this was sexist so rather than level things out equally they skewed it to dramatically favour females?

Typical human reaction really, we can never have things equal, we discriminate against a group, then we realise that what we are doing is wrong but rather than stop discriminating we then just discriminate against everyone else instead.

Since I didn't grow up here, could you describe this change in the education system you mention?

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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05-08-2011, 02:57 PM
RE: The demise of guys
(05-08-2011 02:41 PM)sy2502 Wrote:  Since I didn't grow up here, could you describe this change in the education system you mention?

I didn't see the program, I heard about it off my dad so I can't really comment. FSM_scot might be able to help.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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05-08-2011, 03:05 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2011 03:10 PM by FSM_scot.)
RE: The demise of guys
I'm not sure what change you mean either? As far as I know the way children are educated hasn't really changed.
It's not necessarily that education has changed to favour girls I think it's more to do with before girls had the right to education boys results were only compared to other boys and that back then they were expected to grow up to be the ones who brought in the money the better they were educated the more money they could potentially bring in. So they tried harder. There is multiple possible reasons for why we are less successful in education.
Also they used to use pain and humiliation as punishments in schools. But you can't justify using fear as a way to teach. Caning, the belt etc.

Behold the power of the force!
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05-08-2011, 03:10 PM
RE: The demise of guys
(05-08-2011 03:05 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  I'm not sure what change you mean either? As far as I know the way children are educated hasn't really changed.
It's not necessarily that education has changed to favour girls I think it's more to do with before girls had the right to education boys results were only compared to other boys and that back then they were expected to grow up to be the ones who brought in the money the better they were educated the more money they could potentially bring in. So they tried harder. There is multiple possible reasons for why we are less successful in education.

May have been a different program then. Or maybe my dads full of shit lol. Either way I'm not sure.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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05-08-2011, 03:54 PM
RE: The demise of guys
(05-08-2011 03:10 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(05-08-2011 03:05 PM)FSM_scot Wrote:  I'm not sure what change you mean either? As far as I know the way children are educated hasn't really changed.
It's not necessarily that education has changed to favour girls I think it's more to do with before girls had the right to education boys results were only compared to other boys and that back then they were expected to grow up to be the ones who brought in the money the better they were educated the more money they could potentially bring in. So they tried harder. There is multiple possible reasons for why we are less successful in education.

May have been a different program then. Or maybe my dads full of shit lol. Either way I'm not sure.

Your dad may actualy be right about education being changed to favor girls. Its not something ive actualy heard of . I didn't actualy watch the show i just remember the result of the experiment.
It might be better to educate people in different ways depending on their needs instead of the everyone gets taught the same way method thats being used now. What works well for some people wont always work as well for everyone.

Behold the power of the force!
[Image: fgYtjtY.gif]
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05-08-2011, 04:12 PM
RE: The demise of guys




Got showed this in one of my lessons reminds me of this thread. Sort of.

"In real life , as opposed to that happy, clappy, rainbow fantasy world that you see fit to fly through on your winged unicorn of delusion" - Mitchell and Webb
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