The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
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01-11-2014, 10:12 PM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
Sigh...

(01-11-2014 08:56 PM)Reality-Seeker Wrote:  Our slogan as realists is, "If it's real, we believe in it." Atheism can perhaps be summed up in the statement, "If it's not real then we don't believe in it."

Both of those are the same statement.

Quote:While it is true that God doesn't exist.
First question: Which God?
Second question: Deities are a negative and no one can make the statement that a negative does not exist. You cannot disprove or prove a negative, you can only reject the assertion of its existence based on the lack of evidence.


Quote: Atheism doesn't go beyond that. Once you prove that God doesn't exist, then what? What fills the vacuum? What do Atheists believe in? How do they define right and wrong? How are we supposed to live our lives? What is our purpose? If there is no God then does morality go away?

Atheism is not a philosophy, nor is it a religion, a thought process, a faith, a science, or anything related to the above fields. Atheism is nothing more then the disbelief in deities. Nothing more.


Quote:You can't replace something with nothing. Even if the something is merely the illusion of something.
A completely worthless and meaningless incoherent statement that does nothing for your argument.


Quote: Other religions are about what people believe in. Atheism is about what people don't believe in.
Atheism is not a belief. It does not teach anything.


Quote: That gives religion an advantage in any debate because something generally beats nothing. It's not an argument of equals. That's where Realism comes in. Realism is about the belief in reality as it really is.


Define reality.

Quote: Realism is about what you do believe in, not about what you don't believe in. Realism is about what is real, not about what isn't real. It's a positive position rather than a negative position.
By this definition, realism is applied to every religion. Because they all make the assertion of what is real and not real and base their belief's on what is "real". Now, your not even making a point. Your just making an arbitrary argument by playing with semantics and twisting definitions of established words. Not to mention making a presupposition of what other people "believe".

Quote:
The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real. Realism is about what is real.
OK...unless this is somehow my fault. This is like..the 3rd or 4th time you said this. You are now guilty of the Argumentum ad Repetition fallacy as well as ambiguity


Quote: Why waste our time arguing about fiction when there's all this wonderful reality around us to explore.


I agree. Unfortunately the problem is far bigger than you can imagine.

Quote:When it comes down to it, Atheism isn't any more relevant than Theism because both sides are focused on the unreal.

You obviously have no idea what your talking about. Theism is the belief in a deity and a bunch of other stories and uses those stories and beliefs to control the lives, money, thoughts, and actions of people, government, and everything else that they can get away with. Atheists in general simply do not believe in these assertions.

Militant atheists on the other hand do what they can to improve the quality of life for everyone. You need to do a lot more research on your history and the atheist movement. Because clearly you understand nothing and know nothing about what the atheists who have debates and gather in groups to talk about these things actually do.


Quote: A person is defined by what they believe in, not by what they don't believe in. You are defined by what you are, not by what you aren't.

Persecution of atheists is based 100% on what they "don't" believe in and since we are the most hated group in america, I am pretty sure your statement there is wrong.


Quote:Realism is about something. Atheism is about nothing.

Do you even know what the word nothing actually means? Atheism is about something. It is not meant to be anything more than what it is. Everything outside of it is philosophy, the psychological study of morality and ethics, and many other things in which atheists as a group can all agree on that we share in common with each other. The most important aspect is communication between one another where we can share our ideas with each other and discuss these kinds of things.


Yes it is true that there is no God, but so what? There are a lot of things I don't believe in that don't exist so why is not believing in God any more important than not believing in Spider Man? God doesn't exist and God is therefore not important. Atheists are doing important but limited work in making the point against a very big myth but Atheism is at best just the first step in awakening to the wonders of reality.


Quote:We live in an amazing world. The more I learn about it the more amazing it is.


I agree. It is amazing! Big Grin


Quote: I'm interested in what's real.
You need to stop being so repetitive in your writing.

Quote:Once you figure out God doesn't exist, what do you do next? The next step is to figure out what does exists. Realism is the next logical step in the evolution of Atheism.

But in order to get there, we need to deal with theists. I am proud to call myself an atheist. The words needs secular humanists, free thinkers, and atheists alike. It needs realists like you too. But what I see here is someone who has no true idea of what atheism is. What the history of our persecution has been like, or what the other plethora of problems that we try and fight against actually are.


Quote:One asserts that God does exist, the other asserts that God doesn't.
We do not assert anything.

Quote:That's why being a Realist is better than being an Atheist.
Do you believe in a deity?

If your answer to this is No than you are an atheist.


Quote:Being a Realist is about something. Being an Atheist is about nothing. I choose to make my life about something.

Again, Stop being repetitive.


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01-11-2014, 10:15 PM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
First....this
(01-11-2014 10:05 PM)pablo Wrote:  Copy pasta doesn't fly here so much...Just so you know.

Second, something to consider..

I estimate I spend about forty minutes a day (it's a a lot, but I'm doing some catching up) reading this forum.

I estimate I spend about twenty minutes every day "identifying as an atheist"

So, not even half the time I'm reading an atheist site, and it maybe occurs to me a few times a day. And that's mostly just noticing religion and chuckling to myself for two seconds. Once in a very rare while, I actually do something that is related to atheism. But really, it has very little to do with my life.

I am a combination of many things. Atheism is but a small piece of the puzzle.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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01-11-2014, 10:19 PM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2014 10:28 PM by Drunkin Druid.)
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
(01-11-2014 10:10 PM)Reality-Seeker Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 10:05 PM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  Nope. No way. I'm not going anywhere near anything that calls itself a church. This is not a case where we can fight fire with fire. Religion is not a useful weapon against religion. Religion is control. It is the enemy! And I will oppose yours just like any other.
Without even going to the site to point out any flaws you may find. Closedminded.

You called it a church. You called it a religion. That's enough flaws for me. I stay away as a matter of principle.
But to be completely honest I'm already aware of this church. Not closed minded. Just not interested.
Edited.
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01-11-2014, 10:22 PM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2014 10:34 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
(01-11-2014 09:46 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 08:56 PM)Reality-Seeker Wrote:  I AM A REALIST. This is a realists view of atheism and theism: Realists and Atheists are not the same thing although Atheism is a reality-based position. Our slogan as realists is, "If it's real, we believe in it." Atheism can perhaps be summed up in the statement, "If it's not real then we don't believe in it." While it is true that God doesn't exist, Atheism doesn't go beyond that. Once you prove that God doesn't exist, then what? What fills the vacuum? What do Atheists believe in? How do they define right and wrong? How are we supposed to live our lives? What is our purpose? If there is no God then does morality go away?

You can't replace something with nothing. Even if the something is merely the illusion of something. Other religions are about what people believe in. Atheism is about what people don't believe in. That gives religion an advantage in any debate because something generally beats nothing. It's not an argument of equals. That's where Realism comes in. Realism is about the belief in reality as it really is. Realism is about what you do believe in, not about what you don't believe in. Realism is about what is real, not about what isn't real. It's a positive position rather than a negative position.

The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real. Realism is about what is real.

Religions assert a belief in deities. Atheism asserts there are no deities but stops there. Realism directly challenges other religions on the basis of what is real. Whether God exists or God doesn't exist is the wrong debate. Why waste our time arguing about fiction when there's all this wonderful reality around us to explore. When it comes down to it, Atheism isn't any more relevant than Theism because both sides are focused on the unreal. But who is there to talk about what is real? We are. We are the Church of Reality and we are here to explore reality as it really is. We are here to answer the tough questions, to explore the big issues. We are here to do the hard work of making reality work in the real world.

A person is defined by what they believe in, not by what they don't believe in. You are defined by what you are, not by what you aren't.

Realism is about something. Atheism is about nothing. Yes it is true that there is no God, but so what? There are a lot of things I don't believe in that don't exist so why is not believing in God any more important than not believing in Spider Man? God doesn't exist and God is therefore not important. Atheists are doing important but limited work in making the point against a very big myth but Atheism is at best just the first step in awakening to the wonders of reality.

We live in an amazing world. The more I learn about it the more amazing it is. I'm interested in what's real. I want to learn about space-time. I want to learn about quantum theory. I want to know what happened in the first billionth of a second after the Big Bang. I want to know how organic molecules were first formed on this planet. I want to know how they organized into early proteins. I want to understand the origin of life and how it evolved on this planet. Who are we and how did we get here?

Once you figure out God doesn't exist, what do you do next? The next step is to figure out what does exists. Realism is the next logical step in the evolution of Atheism.

But after the history is over, what I want to know is what are we doing? What is our mission? How are we supposed to live and what is the rationale behind society? What are we evolving into? What will our future be like? We are at the point where we can control our own evolution. We can choose what we as the human race will become. What will we evolve into? Now that we can change our genetic structure, when will we start building better replacement parts for our bodies?

As we expand our minds using computers and technology to see back to the moment of the beginning of time, as we discover new particles, as we figure out how to change matter into energy, and back into matter we ask what are we and what do we want to become?

We do not focus on fiction. We focus on what is real. We do the hard work of answering the big questions as best we can. We are a people who want to learn. We want to make life work. We want to create solutions in the real world. So I say to all Atheists reading this, why waste your life focusing on what isn't real when you can focus on what is real? Christians and Atheists are alike in that they both focus on a fictional God. One asserts that God does exist, the other asserts that God doesn't. Realists don't focus on God. God is a waste of time. God is irrelevant. Reality is relevant. That's why being a Realist is better than being an Atheist. Being a Realist is about something. Being an Atheist is about nothing. I choose to make my life about something.

I actually don't identify myself as an atheist. I prefer to identify myself with what I believe rather than what I don't believe in. I identify myself as an Objectivist. Atheism is not my worldview. It is a consequence of my beliefs in objective reality, reason as my only guide to action and life as my standard of value. So I guess you could call me a realist although I prefer Objectivist. Smile

You keep using the word "belief".
Define it.
Define "objective reality".
Atheism is not an "identity".
It's one position with respect to one idea that is dismissed, and some of us don't even use the word, as there is no coherent definition of a god, that is worth dismissing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-11-2014, 10:25 PM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
OK, yes, that tickled my humour buds...

Atheism is indeed a position about something that (probably) isn't real.

And?

Also, yes, the human mind is not a computer. It's the program that runs on the hardware we call a brain (kinda).

Big Grin

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01-11-2014, 10:33 PM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
I'm seriously uneasy about this guy. I think he came here looking for cult members. Trying to sell us what he thinks we are missing. Like I need to replace my discarded religion for another.
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01-11-2014, 11:11 PM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
Anyone else feel like trying to argue with this "realist" is basically the same thing as a Secular Humanist arguing with a Free thinker a Nihilist?

Or basically the same when a Orthodoxy Christian argues with a Evangelical?

Aren't we all basically the same thing at our cores? Why are we even doing this?


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01-11-2014, 11:44 PM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
(01-11-2014 08:56 PM)Reality-Seeker Wrote:  I AM A REALIST. This is a realists view of atheism and theism: Realists and Atheists are not the same thing although Atheism is a reality-based position. Our slogan as realists is, "If it's real, we believe in it." Atheism can perhaps be summed up in the statement, "If it's not real then we don't believe in it." While it is true that God doesn't exist, Atheism doesn't go beyond that. Once you prove that God doesn't exist, then what? What fills the vacuum? What do Atheists believe in? How do they define right and wrong? How are we supposed to live our lives? What is our purpose? If there is no God then does morality go away?

You can't replace something with nothing. Even if the something is merely the illusion of something. Other religions are about what people believe in. Atheism is about what people don't believe in. That gives religion an advantage in any debate because something generally beats nothing. It's not an argument of equals. That's where Realism comes in. Realism is about the belief in reality as it really is. Realism is about what you do believe in, not about what you don't believe in. Realism is about what is real, not about what isn't real. It's a positive position rather than a negative position.

The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real. Realism is about what is real.

Religions assert a belief in deities. Atheism asserts there are no deities but stops there. Realism directly challenges other religions on the basis of what is real. Whether God exists or God doesn't exist is the wrong debate. Why waste our time arguing about fiction when there's all this wonderful reality around us to explore. When it comes down to it, Atheism isn't any more relevant than Theism because both sides are focused on the unreal. But who is there to talk about what is real? We are. We are the Church of Reality and we are here to explore reality as it really is. We are here to answer the tough questions, to explore the big issues. We are here to do the hard work of making reality work in the real world.

A person is defined by what they believe in, not by what they don't believe in. You are defined by what you are, not by what you aren't.

Realism is about something. Atheism is about nothing. Yes it is true that there is no God, but so what? There are a lot of things I don't believe in that don't exist so why is not believing in God any more important than not believing in Spider Man? God doesn't exist and God is therefore not important. Atheists are doing important but limited work in making the point against a very big myth but Atheism is at best just the first step in awakening to the wonders of reality.

We live in an amazing world. The more I learn about it the more amazing it is. I'm interested in what's real. I want to learn about space-time. I want to learn about quantum theory. I want to know what happened in the first billionth of a second after the Big Bang. I want to know how organic molecules were first formed on this planet. I want to know how they organized into early proteins. I want to understand the origin of life and how it evolved on this planet. Who are we and how did we get here?

Once you figure out God doesn't exist, what do you do next? The next step is to figure out what does exists. Realism is the next logical step in the evolution of Atheism.

But after the history is over, what I want to know is what are we doing? What is our mission? How are we supposed to live and what is the rationale behind society? What are we evolving into? What will our future be like? We are at the point where we can control our own evolution. We can choose what we as the human race will become. What will we evolve into? Now that we can change our genetic structure, when will we start building better replacement parts for our bodies?

As we expand our minds using computers and technology to see back to the moment of the beginning of time, as we discover new particles, as we figure out how to change matter into energy, and back into matter we ask what are we and what do we want to become?

We do not focus on fiction. We focus on what is real. We do the hard work of answering the big questions as best we can. We are a people who want to learn. We want to make life work. We want to create solutions in the real world. So I say to all Atheists reading this, why waste your life focusing on what isn't real when you can focus on what is real? Christians and Atheists are alike in that they both focus on a fictional God. One asserts that God does exist, the other asserts that God doesn't. Realists don't focus on God. God is a waste of time. God is irrelevant. Reality is relevant. That's why being a Realist is better than being an Atheist. Being a Realist is about something. Being an Atheist is about nothing. I choose to make my life about something.
(Quoting initial post but replying to everything you've written in the thread.)

So from what I'm understanding "The Church of Reality" is your way of combining existentialism, neo-positivism and political and social activism? (Yes I checked the link.)

So how does it and by extention realism serve any purpose other than a call to action? Why would you need to further granulate the various motivating factors by making a distinction between realism and atheism? (See also: The "New Athiest Movement.")

I don't necessarily agree with Pablo about this being cultish but that's the language you're using and that's worrying.
(01-11-2014 09:46 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 08:56 PM)Reality-Seeker Wrote:  [Snip]

I actually don't identify myself as an atheist. I prefer to identify myself with what I believe rather than what I don't believe in. I identify myself as an Objectivist. Atheism is not my worldview. It is a consequence of my beliefs in objective reality, reason as my only guide to action and life as my standard of value. So I guess you could call me a realist although I prefer Objectivist. Smile
Are we talking Rand brand philosophy when you say "Objectivist" or another use of the term I'm not familiar with?
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01-11-2014, 11:47 PM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
(01-11-2014 11:11 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Anyone else feel like trying to argue with this "realist" is basically the same thing as a Secular Humanist arguing with a Free thinker a Nihilist?

Or basically the same when a Orthodoxy Christian argues with a Evangelical?

Aren't we all basically the same thing at our cores? Why are we even doing this?
Because people like to affirm that they're right. Or at least the rightest right they can be. If somebody agrees with you in general then the only way you can demonstrate that you're right is in the particulars and their motivations.
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01-11-2014, 11:51 PM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
(01-11-2014 11:47 PM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  
(01-11-2014 11:11 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Anyone else feel like trying to argue with this "realist" is basically the same thing as a Secular Humanist arguing with a Free thinker a Nihilist?

Or basically the same when a Orthodoxy Christian argues with a Evangelical?

Aren't we all basically the same thing at our cores? Why are we even doing this?
Because people like to affirm that they're right. Or at least the rightest right they can be. If somebody agrees with you in general then the only way you can demonstrate that you're right is in the particulars and their motivations.

I guess that kinda makes sense. I don't get why someone would do that but I probably do it myself anyway so I am not gonna argue that.


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