The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
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02-11-2014, 12:49 AM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
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02-11-2014, 01:54 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2014 01:58 AM by corfou73.)
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
(01-11-2014 08:56 PM)Reality-Seeker Wrote:  Once you prove that God doesn't exist, then what? What fills the vacuum? What do Atheists believe in? How do they define right and wrong? How are we supposed to live our lives? What is our purpose? If there is no God then does morality go away?
What vacuum?
- Sir, your cancer is cured.
- Oh, how can I fill the vacuum?
Quote:You can't replace something with nothing. Even if the something is merely the illusion of something. Other religions are about what people believe in. Atheism is about what people don't believe in. That gives religion an advantage in any debate because something generally beats nothing.
Rethorics.
Quote:It's not an argument of equals. That's where Realism comes in. Realism is about the belief in reality as it really is.
Oh come on! *Every* religion or philisophy pretends to describe or discuss reality "as it really is". People pray a god because they think he is real. People watch the night sky because they think UFOs are real. People listen to psychics because they think that ghosts are real.
Quote:Realism is about what you do believe in, not about what you don't believe in. Realism is about what is real, not about what isn't real. It's a positive position rather than a negative position.
Either it is about what *is* real, or about what *you beleive* is real. The two are not necessarily compatible.
Quote:The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real. Realism is about what is real.

Religions assert a belief in deities. Atheism asserts there are no deities but stops there. Realism directly challenges other religions on the basis of what is real. Whether God exists or God doesn't exist is the wrong debate. Why waste our time arguing about fiction when there's all this wonderful reality around us to explore. When it comes down to it, Atheism isn't any more relevant than Theism because both sides are focused on the unreal. But who is there to talk about what is real? We are. We are the Church of Reality and we are here to explore reality as it really is. We are here to answer the tough questions, to explore the big issues. We are here to do the hard work of making reality work in the real world.
Atheism doesn't pretend to claim anything about reality. It is a negative answer to a god claim. It's a response to claim that is omnipresent in our societies. A claim that people try to enforce by any means.

Atheism is a revolt.

Atheism is the refusal of intellectual, emotional and psychological enslavement.

Atheism is the refusal of superstition as social and political justification.
Quote:A person is defined by what they believe in, not by what they don't believe in. You are defined by what you are, not by what you aren't.
A person is not defined by anything else than what she defines herself by.
Quote:Realism is about something. Atheism is about nothing. Yes it is true that there is no God, but so what? There are a lot of things I don't believe in that don't exist so why is not believing in God any more important than not believing in Spider Man? God doesn't exist and God is therefore not important. Atheists are doing important but limited work in making the point against a very big myth but Atheism is at best just the first step in awakening to the wonders of reality.

We live in an amazing world. The more I learn about it the more amazing it is. I'm interested in what's real. I want to learn about space-time. I want to learn about quantum theory. I want to know what happened in the first billionth of a second after the Big Bang. I want to know how organic molecules were first formed on this planet. I want to know how they organized into early proteins. I want to understand the origin of life and how it evolved on this planet. Who are we and how did we get here?

Once you figure out God doesn't exist, what do you do next?
[\quote]
I live.
[quote]
The next step is to figure out what does exists. Realism is the next logical step in the evolution of Atheism.

But after the history is over, what I want to know is what are we doing? What is our mission? How are we supposed to live and what is the rationale behind society?
[\quote]
Mission? Supposed to? Go back to church, they'll tell you.

[quote]What are we evolving into? What will our future be like? We are at the point where we can control our own evolution. We can choose what we as the human race will become. What will we evolve into? Now that we can change our genetic structure, when will we start building better replacement parts for our bodies?

As we expand our minds using computers and technology to see back to the moment of the beginning of time, as we discover new particles, as we figure out how to change matter into energy, and back into matter we ask what are we and what do we want to become?

We do not focus on fiction. We focus on what is real.
Religion is real. God claims are real. Submission to these claims is real. Religious wars are real. Diminution of people's self-esteem is real. Rejection and discrimination of non beleivers is real. The daily struggle with an inconsistent worldview is real. Abuse of religious authority is real. Unjustified shaming and blaming is real. What more reality do you want?
Quote: We do the hard work of answering the big questions as best we can. We are a people who want to learn. We want to make life work. We want to create solutions in the real world. So I say to all Atheists reading this, why waste your life focusing on what isn't real when you can focus on what is real? Christians and Atheists are alike in that they both focus on a fictional God. One asserts that God does exist, the other asserts that God doesn't. Realists don't focus on God. God is a waste of time. God is irrelevant. Reality is relevant. That's why being a Realist is better than being an Atheist. Being a Realist is about something. Being an Atheist is about nothing. I choose to make my life about something.
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02-11-2014, 02:25 AM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
There isn't a difference between atheists and "realists".

Seems to me that "realists" would also be atheists. These things aren't mutually exclusive.

Now, since there is no reason why a person whom doesn't believe in god (atheist) can't concurrently hold a belief in ghosts or loc ness or big foot or alchemy or whatever, then I'd say "realists" are a subset of atheists.
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02-11-2014, 02:29 AM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
More from the website. Critique at will. I'm enjoying the well thought out replys. "The Church of Reality is an Inclusive Religion. Everyone is welcome. In our religion everyone has equal rights no matter what race your are, what gender you are, what your sexual preferences are, or the geography of where you were born. We don't demonize others. Our view is that people are basically good and we believe in Original Virtue rather than original sin. We see ourselves as one people, one planet. We are environmentalists. We believe in personal choice and personal responsibility. We admire attributes like Curiosity. We are a people who want to know everything. We want to understand it all. We have a quest for knowledge. And not just any knowledge but about reality as it really is.

We don't know if there is some sort of grand purpose in our existence. We don't know if reality has a purpose. But it is what we don't know that makes us want to know. We are different from other religions in that it is OK for us to not know everything. We are a Humble culture because we understand that this planet is but a speck of dust in the universe. We are not a religion that has all the answers. We don't have a supernatural leader who has all the answers. We don't have an afterlife to offer people in exchange for their loyalty. Nor do we have any deities to fall back on in troubled times. We have to do the hard work for ourselves. We have to figure it out on our own. We have to make it happen. "
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02-11-2014, 02:40 AM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
(01-11-2014 09:53 PM)pablo Wrote:  Calling it a church sounds kinda cultish to me.
What the Church of Reality is Not
To avoid confusion and misconceptions, here is a list of things that the Church of Reality is not. Sometimes a religion can better clarify what it is by stating what it isn't. We are like other religions in many ways and in many ways we are not like other religions. Here is a list of what we are not.

We don't Worship Anything - If you want to worship something it's up to you. But this church is about reality, not about God. We are not theists. However, if God comes out of hiding and shows itself in objective reality then we will believe in it. This church is based in reality and not for the purpose of worship. However, using some of the dictionary terms for the word "worship" it might be said that we worship truth, reality, and the Tree of Knowledge. Communion in the Church of Reality is ordering a pizza together.

No Salvation - If you want to get saved, go to a church that offers that service. In the Church of Reality "being saved" means having a good backup of your computer data. The only known afterlife in the Church of Reality is the ideas you leave behind that are worth remembering.

Nothing Supernatural - We don't believe in the supernatural. There are things we can't explain because we don't know all the answers. But we do believe that explanations do exist and our purpose is to use science and figure it out. If something is outside of reality, then it's not real.

No Rituals - We don't throw virgins into volcanoes. We don't baptize anyone. We don't speak in tongues. We are suspicious, however, of people who aren't into Star Trek.

No Dogma - We have no "holy book" or "holy web site" that contains any list of things that you are expected to believe in. You are not required to accept anything on "faith." The Church of Reality is a Doubt-Based Religion. We believe in the Principle of Bullshit, that bullshit is bullshit, no matter how many people believe it.

Not Morally Superior - We don't look down our noses at the rest of the world. This planet is but a speck of dust in a galaxy of billions of stars in a universe of billions of galaxies. We exist for an instant of time. How important can we be? We are not morally superior to you, and you are not morally superior to us.

We're not out to Destroy Religion - This is an alternative to other religions for some people. It is not an alternative for everyone. If you're happy with your beliefs then we're happy for you. The world would be boring if everyone believed the same thing. This religion fills a gap to serve those who are into reality. Reality isn't for everyone. Religion will stand or fall on it's own merits. We are here to help other religions evolve in a positive direction by bringing reality into the religious discussion.

We are not a Cult - We are strongly individualistic. We encourage people to disagree and to argue their point. Our mission is to inspire people to think. We are not followers. We are Explorers.

We are not a Scam - This is a real religion with a real doctrine. This is not a get rich quick scam. We are not here to trick you out of your money by promising you rewards in the next life. This isn't a front for a clever tax dodge. We are not a religion dreamed up to find suckers. The Church of Reality is not organized around money,

We don't think for you - We are not a religion that is going to tell you what to think. We require that you do your own thinking. We are not followers, we are Explorers. We don't tell you what reality is. We invite you to join us in helping all of us grow our knowledge of reality together.

We don't control your life - We are a highly individualistic church that believes strongly in individuality and personal freedom.

We are not a Political Organization - The Church of Reality is a religion, not a political movement. Individually, however, we are very political and members are encouraged to participate in politics and government in the interest of creating a better world. But as a church, we endorse no candidates or affiliate ourselves with any political parties. Members of the Church of Reality are required to come to their own conclusions as to who to vote for. We do, however, strongly encourage voting.

We are not a Science Foundation - Although our religion is science-based and we have a religious commitment to science, the Church of Reality itself is not a science organization. We don't determine and declare what is real and what is scientific fact. That is the job of science. Our job is promoting a religious commitment to the scientific process and helping to build a world where science can thrive.

We don't pass out Credentials - If you are looking to pay $25 to become a minister in the Church of Reality you are looking in the wrong place. The Universal Life Church sells ministries in a box. If you want to become a mail order preacher, they can fix you up.
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02-11-2014, 02:52 AM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
By it's own description. It's not a religion but can be described as a cult.

Religion- the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Cult- a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

With the entire universe as the object.

Edit: Reputation: 1. I've leveled up.

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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02-11-2014, 03:22 AM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
Me thinks your level of critical thinking and skepticism needs work.

You're here representing an organization and organizations aren't free. Essentially I see you as a cult pan handler. The repetitive language you use is indicative of cult speech.

I really could go on for another 3 paragraphs about what I think is wrong with what you're doing, but it's not realistically worth my time.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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02-11-2014, 04:28 AM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
So what is the point of this thread?

Just a note, atheism is not "God does not exist", it's "I lack a belief in a god."

It's like not believing in Santa Claus, except it has a name.

Why don't you say then "The difference between Asantaclausism and Realism is that Asantaclausism is about what isn't real"?

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-Guybrush Threepwood-
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02-11-2014, 04:32 AM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
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02-11-2014, 07:02 AM
RE: The difference between Atheism and Realism is that Atheism is about what isn't real.
(02-11-2014 02:29 AM)Reality-Seeker Wrote:  More from the website. Critique at will. I'm enjoying the well thought out replys. "The Church of Reality is an Inclusive Religion. Everyone is welcome."

The only reason I see for creating a "religion" like this is to provide a haven for people who don't want to think things through individually. A religion provides a framework of beliefs and a built-in community that reinforces those beliefs.

I never believed in any god so the whole concept of religion always felt very alien to me. I see this "Church of Reality" kind of like I see the "Sunday Assembly"; they appear to be a sort of halfway house for people who have left religion but haven't fully transitioned and miss the security and support that it gave them. If that helps people get through the process then that's great but I think many will find that they don't need them after a while.

I am an atheist because I am a realist/rationalist/empiricist/whatever. I don't have any need or desire to join a "church" of realism. I claim the title 'Atheist' as an active rejection of the harm done by religion but atheism itself isn't any different to me than aleprechaunism or aunicornism; I just don't usually need to be clear about my positions on those claims.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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