The earth. Fixed and immovable?
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07-10-2010, 05:37 AM
The earth. Fixed and immovable?
This is a question to anyone in here with a better understanding of physics than I have.

The bible claims that the earth is "fixed and immovable", presumably meaning that the earth stays perfectly still while the universe moves around us. However implausible it seams that we should happen to be at the exact center of the universe, is it strictly speaking impossible? Would it not look the same to us whether the universe moved around us, or we through it?

Please educate me. Undecided

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07-10-2010, 05:56 AM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
The effects of centrifical force from the earths rotation are present and measurable. This would lead me to believe that it is impossible for the universe to revolve around a fixed and "immovable" earth.

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07-10-2010, 06:12 AM
 
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
(07-10-2010 05:56 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  The effects of centrifical force from the earths rotation are present and measurable. This would lead me to believe that it is impossible for the universe to revolve around a fixed and "immovable" earth.
There are also measurable affects of the Earth's rotation on the atmosphere. If the Earth didn't rotate, our weather would be very different! Moreover, having the universe rotating around a stationary Earth would once again require the sun and other planets to rotate around the Earth - that notion was dismissed as physically impossible long ago. A lot of debunked hypotheses would have to be reinstated.
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07-10-2010, 12:22 PM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
Pretty sure Earth's gravitational pull isn't strong enough to have an entire universe orbit around it.

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07-10-2010, 01:46 PM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
Follow this link to a fascinating website I found, it has all kinds of scientific knowledge for you to absorb. One in particular is the "How the Universe works" series...

http://www.streaming-madness.net/watch-o...rse_works/

It's easy to think people are listening to you, but in actual fact they are just waiting for their turn to speak.
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07-10-2010, 01:52 PM
 
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
To any observer in any place in the universe, it will appear as if he/she/it is at the center of the universe. Why?

The "observable universe" is a term used to describe the part of the universe that is observable by humans on earth. The "visible universe" is the part of the universe that current technology can currently see.

The exact part of the universe that is "observable" will vary from place to place. Humans have not ventured far enough out there to notice a significant shift in this frame of reference. It is impossible to stipulate about the universe outside the observable realm, but it is believed that according to current inflation models, the total universe may be at present (which is important to note, because we see the universe as it was when the light from that part of the universe was first emitted) at least 10^23 times larger than the size of the observable Universe. Note that that the observable universe has a diameter of 156 billion light years or so.

So, if I understand this correctly, we can only see the part of the universe from which light has had time to reach us. Certain parts of the universe are so distant that the rate of cosmic inflation, which was faster than the speed of light following the big bang, is too fast for that light to ever reach us. So, we seem to be at the center of a sphere, only because the radius of that sphere is the limit of our visibility. This sphere is just a part of a much larger universe. I don't know exactly how cosmologists define an edge to the universe and I think the general consensus is that the universe is finite but has no edges, in that like pac man if you go all the way to one end you will just loop around (assuming that you are travelling fast enough to overcome cosmic inflation).

A fundamental principle of cosmology states that the earth does not hold a privileged place in the universe and that the laws of physics are constant everywhere.

All motion is also relative. For observers on earth, it is valid, according to the general theory of relativity, to claim that we are stationary while the rest of the universe is moving around us. To claim that the earth is moving requires that we have a reference point to compare its motion to. We normally use the sun as this reference point. And since we have launched probes to serve as observers separate from the earth, we can see that the earth is not fixed, at least in reference to these probes.

In any case, it does not imply that the primitive, biblical account for the immovable earth is valid at all. These people had no idea about modern physics and meant something completely different.
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07-10-2010, 07:57 PM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
Ocean currents are highly influenced by the earths rotation. If the earth was stationary, ocean currents would be very different.
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08-10-2010, 06:40 PM
 
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
You know when you guys hate it when someone says "you have to take it in context"? Guess what I'm about to say?

Tell me where in the Bible it says this, and I will point out that every place where it says this is within a psalm, which is music and poetry. And good thing we have artistic license in poetry, or Shakespeare's Sonnet 18 would simply say: "I think you're awesome."
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09-10-2010, 02:33 AM
 
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
There is no fixed place. By definition a fixed place suffers no accelerations. Yet all pairs of orbiting objects rotate around a common center of gravity somewhere along a line connecting their individual centers of gravity. The sun's position with reference to any fixed frame would show that it jinks about under the influences of the eight planets that rotate around it in a complex way. Likewise, each of the planets also rotates around the sun and jinks in accordance to the other seven planets as well. These motions are considered minor, but they are a big enough influence on their sun that astronomers use that movement of a system's central star to determine that it does have planets, how many and of what mass and orbital distance.
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09-10-2010, 02:40 AM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
It's in the chronicles where Asaf and his brother sing and the immovable part is in the song. I'd say out of context.

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