The earth. Fixed and immovable?
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09-10-2010, 06:47 AM
 
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
"Although it is not uncommon for people to say that Copernicus proved Ptolemy wrong, that is not true. As in the case of our view versus that of the goldfish [referring to a goldfish in a curved bowl and its perception of the universe] one can use either picture as a model of the universe, because we can explain our observations of the heavens by assuming either Earth or the sun to be at rest. Despite its role in philosophical debates over the nature of the universe, the real advantage of the Copernican system is that the equations of motion are much simpler in the frame of reference at which the sun is at rest."

A quote from an essay by Stephen Hawkings and Leonard Mlodinow in the latest Scientific American.
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11-10-2010, 03:08 AM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
oh goody! the earths spin affecting the tidal motions of the oceans is the kind of prof I am after! Smile
So now we know that the earth is spinning, what proof do we have that it is moving about as well?
Sorry if I am being difficult here, but what I am looking for is the kind of decisive easy to understand argument you can just throw out there in an argument to make everyone understand why you are right. Like the tidal thingy. Big Grin

I want to rip off your superstitions and make passionate sense to you
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11-10-2010, 07:00 AM
 
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
(11-10-2010 03:08 AM)ThinkingNorseman Wrote:  oh goody! the earths spin affecting the tidal motions of the oceans is the kind of prof I am after! Smile
So now we know that the earth is spinning, what proof do we have that it is moving about as well?
Sorry if I am being difficult here, but what I am looking for is the kind of decisive easy to understand argument you can just throw out there in an argument to make everyone understand why you are right. Like the tidal thingy. Big Grin

Again, technically, all motion is relative. If we use the earth as a reference point, the earth is at rest. If we use the sun as a reference point, the earth is moving. In fact, if we use any other point in space as a reference point, the earth would be moving. However, that does not make the use of the earth as a reference point less correct than using any other point. It just so happens that, as I explained above, the sun is often used as a reference point when describing the motion of the earth simply because the equations of motion are much simpler.
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11-10-2010, 09:01 AM
 
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
Using the Earth as a reference point is not the same as saying that the Earth is fixed and immovable. You can use any point you wish as the center of a coordinate system and a transformation of coordinates to that point doesn't change the physics at all, the way those laws of physics are constructed.

The rotation of the Earth about its axis has calculable effects on anything moving, from the trajectory of an artillery shell to the currents (not tides) in the oceans and the airflow in the atmosphere. If the Earth isn't rotating, those effects would not exist - the fact that they do exist and are easily observed refutes any notion that the Earth is fixed and immobile

If you take a time exposure of the stars on a clear night, you get "star trails" forming circles around the pole, which are another clear manifestation of the rotation of the earth. But the point about which those star trails rotate moves north and south with the seasons, returning to the same points along the way, which is a clear indication that the earth is rotating about the sun and not vice-versa.
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12-10-2010, 02:21 AM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
(11-10-2010 03:08 AM)ThinkingNorseman Wrote:  Sorry if I am being difficult here, but what I am looking for is the kind of decisive easy to understand argument you can just throw out there in an argument to make everyone understand why you are right.

I think you'd need a full blown miracle to pull that off.
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12-10-2010, 08:19 AM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
(12-10-2010 02:21 AM)No J. Wrote:  
(11-10-2010 03:08 AM)ThinkingNorseman Wrote:  Sorry if I am being difficult here, but what I am looking for is the kind of decisive easy to understand argument you can just throw out there in an argument to make everyone understand why you are right.

I think you'd need a full blown miracle to pull that off.

Either that or find it somewhere in the bible. Hell, there's gotta be someone who has "interpreted" a biblcal passage to mean that the earth is in motion. Short of that, you'll never be able to convince some people that it's true, because it can only be true if god says so.

You have just begun reading the sentence you have just finished reading.
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12-10-2010, 11:15 PM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
The earth doesn't move. It's nailed it to the ground.
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14-10-2010, 03:49 PM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
(08-10-2010 06:40 PM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  You know when you guys hate it when someone says "you have to take it in context"? Guess what I'm about to say?

Tell me where in the Bible it says this, and I will point out that every place where it says this is within a psalm, which is music and poetry. And good thing we have artistic license in poetry, or Shakespeare's Sonnet 18 would simply say: "I think you're awesome."

If my memory serves me correctly there is a verse in the psalm No.96 "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved" something lie that, Its been a long time since I read the book of psalms so please correct me if I'm wrong. Peace.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

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15-10-2010, 02:25 AM
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
(14-10-2010 03:49 PM)MasterRottweiler Wrote:  
(08-10-2010 06:40 PM)BarleyMcFlexo Wrote:  You know when you guys hate it when someone says "you have to take it in context"? Guess what I'm about to say?

Tell me where in the Bible it says this, and I will point out that every place where it says this is within a psalm, which is music and poetry. And good thing we have artistic license in poetry, or Shakespeare's Sonnet 18 would simply say: "I think you're awesome."

If my memory serves me correctly there is a verse in the psalm No.96 "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved" something lie that, Its been a long time since I read the book of psalms so please correct me if I'm wrong. Peace.

In psalms it's not god or Jesse speaking, they're songs made by people.

Correct me when I'm wrong.
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15-10-2010, 04:55 AM
 
RE: The earth. Fixed and immovable?
According to the "Flat-Earth Bible":

1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”

See: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

Sorry, Barley - if the psalms are simply lyrical songs/poetry and can be rationalized away as "artistic license" then what are they doing in the bible? Why not put the lyrics to Black Sabbath and Bob Dylan songs into the bible, instead? Those are artistic works, aren't they?

Either everything in the bible is the holy writ of your favorite deity or it isn't. Furthermore, it seems your understanding that all biblical references to an immobile Earth appear only within the psalms is wrong.
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