The education debate.
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13-01-2011, 07:07 AM
 
RE: The education debate.
Stark Raving I think I get your point now. I have a regular day job that pays average (at best). I will admit, I AM LAZY sometimes. One of my hobbies is photography, and I have shot some weddings with decent results. I have made a little bit of money on the side doing it. If I were motivated enough, I could go out there and make a pretty good coin (during the spring/summer/fall anyways) in wedding photography. Sure, a little education in business, marketing, and photography itself would help, but is not required because you do not need a certificate to become a photographer. I wish I had more motivation, instead I would just like to be a second shooter and make couple hundred bucks helping out a main photographer.
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13-01-2011, 09:01 AM
RE: The education debate.
(10-01-2011 09:54 AM)BnW Wrote:  Depends on where you live, I guess. In the US, the odds of getting a pension plan at this point and even the benefits are sketchy
Well I can only speak about where I live, but here in Canada, most construction companies have benefit plans, that include a company pension. Plus we have the government pension (which may be moot by the time I need it)

Quote:And, here is the bigger issue: think about how many guys there are working on a crew and how many supervisors there are. Not everyone is going to get to that job level.
there are about two laborers for every one foreman/supervisor/operator. (Keep in mind, depending on the machine, operators often make more than foremen). A large chunk of laborers are young people who are either going back to school, or haven't decided what they want to do yet. If you stay in construction for a few years, you will have the chance to move up if you are a good worker. There are shortages of foremen and operators at most of the companies I know. (I know many, and I also know the industry well)

Quote:Finally, $30/hour is about $60k a year. Not awful money but not great. As you say, I guess it depends on what you want in life and how you are measuring success.

First off, $60k a year is based on what? 40 hours a week? One thing about trades, construction, etc. There is plenty of overtime to be had. That's part of working hard. The 8 hour day thing is crazy to me. I can work ten, and still have TONS of time to enjoy my life. When the season is right, you get lots more than that, then in the off season you get a break that makes up for it. All that aside, $60k a year is plenty if you live modestly. Whats wrong with making "average" money (and $60k isn't average, it's above) if you enjoy what you do, can pay for what you need, and can be with the people you care about?
We definitely agree on one thing. It all depends on how you measure success. My scale is easy. Happiness. The hapiness of myself and those around me.

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13-01-2011, 08:15 PM
 
RE: The education debate.
LOL.. "$30/hour is about $60k a year. Not awful money but not great."

Let me know where all the $30/hr jobs are. My wife could quit her [full time] job and we'd still be slightly better off. $60k year may be "average" for a household income but definitely not for a single individual.

Stark Raving- I work 8.5hrs a day (that is not including half hour off for lunch) but that is all year round. I work in a garage so if it's hot and humid in the summer, I boil. If it's cold in the winter, it takes a while to heat up the shop sometimes and my feet are often cold. If it's nice summer weather the days do go by fast, I could work more hours. In the winter, I'm frickin beat! I think the amount of hours you can work at a job really depends on the work... I used to work at Office Depot as a salesperson. It was part time 4hr shifts, but they felt more like 12!
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13-01-2011, 08:55 PM
RE: The education debate.
You're right about that. I definitely don't deny that it can be hard. When I was paving I'd sometimes get 80 hours in a single week. There weren't many weeks like that, but they did happen. Plus I worked on a machine that was around 8 to 10 degrees higher than the outside temp. Plus it ran directly over the wet concrete, so humidity was always super high. I feel for you. Must be tough inside a garage where the air circulation isn't good.

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14-01-2011, 06:52 AM
 
RE: The education debate.
Probably not nearly as tough as paving, you guys must drink like 10 gallons of water a day lol.
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14-01-2011, 01:59 PM
RE: The education debate.
Education is one of my pet hobbies.

Just finished an article on the subject - appreciate any feedback/thoughts you might have!

http://centersolid.blogspot.com/2011/01/...ation.html

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14-01-2011, 05:02 PM
RE: The education debate.
That was very well written, easy to follow and to the point. I do disagree with the statement of "business taking over and not screwing it up any more than we have already been done." Outside of that statement, i think it is written at a very profeesional level and needs to be seen by America as a whole.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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14-01-2011, 06:17 PM
RE: The education debate.
Thanks No J! Glad you enjoyed it.

I wrote the part about business taking it over semi-tongue in cheek. I really for the federalization of education and providing equal access to education regardless of zip code.

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14-01-2011, 06:20 PM
RE: The education debate.
My husband moved to Canada when he was 7, not being able to speak one word of English. His parents were poor immigrants who never placed value on education (his mother could barely read or write). He never graduated high school. Last year the businesses he owns (3 locations total) grossed almost 1 million US dollars.
I have a college education but do not use my degree in my business (which does very well, also).
You do not have to be educated to be successful, but an education is always a valuable asset.
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14-01-2011, 08:11 PM
RE: The education debate.
I'm not sure where I stand on this debate. I personally hold education to be an extremely important thing, but after reading the discussions, I am realising that not everybody has the desire to get an education. But, there are a couple of reasons why I think that having an education is better than having no education:

Stark Raving: you said that someone does not need an education to be successful in certain areas, and I agree to a point. I grew up in a town surrounded by mines and pulp mills, and I even worked at a pulp mill over the summer to save money for school (and man, was it good money for a summer job!) The only problem, though, when someone works at a place like this is that they are replaceable. A couple friends of mine, who had only their 1st-level power-engineering were laid off, because when times get tough, those without the education get booted. Also, a couple of years ago, one of the mills in town shut down, leaving tons of people out of work, and because the economy wasn't doing so well, many of them could not find jobs elsewhere because they had no tickets to fall back on. My dad on the other hand, works at one of the mills, but he has tickets in heavy-duty and automotive mechanics, meaning if the mill shuts down he has more options to get another job than someone who has no tickets.

There is also the simple matter that having something to show employers (i.e. a ticket, diploma, degree, etc.) is apparently more proof of competence than experience is. For example, I worked for a year after graduating high school as a pharmacy technician. Now, normally people go to school to do this, but in a small town, people don't really care. Besides, I knew the head pharmacist Wink (Which may be even more important than education and experience in getting a job these days, unfortunately >.<) Anyways, my point is that I had a year's worth of experience working with prescriptions, patients, and even compounding some drugs. Yet, when I tried to get a summer job in the city after my first year of university, no pharmacy would hire me. One of them asked me what my area of study at university was, and because it wasn't science, they didn't hire me. They judged my abilities based on my education, not on my actual ability, and though I absolutely hate that, it's the way employers seem to work :/

"Remember, my friend, that knowledge is stronger than memory, and we should not trust the weaker." - Dr. Van Helsing, Dracula
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