The elegant nature of science
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23-08-2012, 08:23 AM
RE: The elegant nature of science
(23-08-2012 06:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-08-2012 10:39 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I suppose I better ask before I make a thread.
Been reading a bit about human migration and how we populated the earth.

Is current day science in agreement that we, all humans on earth, stem from Central Africa.
Like, you have some apemen in Central Africa and then over the years they walk around and end up all over the world.
But the only apemen to develop were from Africa.

Like, at the time man was evolving in Africa, independent of that event, was it happening in China?
So you have different 'species' of man today. Like you would have one species of ape man evolving in Africa, one evolving in Asia, one in America, one in Siberia/Scandanavia(ish area). Then they went out for a stroll and eventually met each other.
So say you have the black African meet a pasty white European, you end up with something in between which eventually becomes like Middle Easterners. Perhaps at different ratios. Like, 1black for every 3white. So 1black mates with 1whte to create 1grey. but then 1grey mates with 1white to become 1lightgrey or whatever.

I just don't think we all originated from Africa, I think different 'species' of ape like men must have evolved in different parts of the world. After all, if they can evolve in one area then they should be able to evolve in other similar area under the same conditions.

Nope. The DNA tells the story, and the story is that we are all out of Africa in a couple of waves of migration.

They would tell this because certain parts of the DNA are similar right??
But like we're the same group, the same animal species, so of course the DNA is gonna be similar.
Like, the DNA from an anaconda is no doubt extremely similar to that shitty green snake in China, yet they are so different.

Plus same you have like that 1black and 1white mate to create the 1grey, then that 1grey is gonna have black dna. And then if you have 1grey mate with 1white there is still that black DNA as you're never gonna get pure white, it's always gonna be just a lighter shade of grey. So maybe the only way to prove something like this would be to have DNA from the 1white before they ever met the 1black and mated. But that would have been so far back that we don't see those sorts of results.
I dunno, just thinking out loud really.

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23-08-2012, 08:28 AM
RE: The elegant nature of science
(23-08-2012 08:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 06:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  Nope. The DNA tells the story, and the story is that we are all out of Africa in a couple of waves of migration.

They would tell this because certain parts of the DNA are similar right??
But like we're the same group, the same animal species, so of course the DNA is gonna be similar.
Like, the DNA from an anaconda is no doubt extremely similar to that shitty green snake in China, yet they are so different.

Plus same you have like that 1black and 1white mate to create the 1grey, then that 1grey is gonna have black dna. And then if you have 1grey mate with 1white there is still that black DNA as you're never gonna get pure white, it's always gonna be just a lighter shade of grey. So maybe the only way to prove something like this would be to have DNA from the 1white before they ever met the 1black and mated. But that would have been so far back that we don't see those sorts of results.
I dunno, just thinking out loud really.

Your understanding of the DNA evidence needs some improvement, it is more complicated than that.Consider

First, your idea that human species evolved in separate places simply can't work. We would have multiple species, not one.

There are good articles and books on how the mapping of genomic DNA and mitochondrial DNA has shown conclusively the out-of-Africa scenario. There are a couple of variants - 2 or 3 emigrations, back-migration - but the overall idea is well-founded.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-08-2012, 10:41 AM
RE: The elegant nature of science
(23-08-2012 08:23 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 06:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  Nope. The DNA tells the story, and the story is that we are all out of Africa in a couple of waves of migration.

They would tell this because certain parts of the DNA are similar right??
But like we're the same group, the same animal species, so of course the DNA is gonna be similar.
Like, the DNA from an anaconda is no doubt extremely similar to that shitty green snake in China, yet they are so different.

Plus same you have like that 1black and 1white mate to create the 1grey, then that 1grey is gonna have black dna. And then if you have 1grey mate with 1white there is still that black DNA as you're never gonna get pure white, it's always gonna be just a lighter shade of grey. So maybe the only way to prove something like this would be to have DNA from the 1white before they ever met the 1black and mated. But that would have been so far back that we don't see those sorts of results.
I dunno, just thinking out loud really.

Muffs, you might be confusing the evolution of genetic mutation with the adaptation of epigenetic change in a species. Epigenetic variations happen more on the "surface" of our genes and account for inherited traits or environmental coping.
C0nc0rdance made a good (shorter) vid about races.



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24-08-2012, 07:37 PM (This post was last modified: 25-08-2012 08:55 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The elegant nature of science
I discovered Dr. David Eagleman, recently. He's a Neuroscientist from Baylor.
His "Incognito, The Secret Lives of the Brain" was just published in paperback.
He has some really interesting insights into the funtion of the brain. He think consciousness, is just a very small sideshow, in the function of the brain.









I do not, however agree with his Possibilianism. It's cute, but not productive. We exist in an historical context, in which religion has attempted to define the values and laws of society, and punish those who do not agree, and still does. The struggle is far from over, to free us from that. Denial of, or underestimation of that reality is dangerous. He apparently thinks he has nothing to loose, and is exempt from religionist tactics. If they were trying to stop his marriage, or get him fired, he would feel different.

1. His spatial representation, and equation of atheism, and religion as equal, and juxtaposed, on opposite walls, is not useful, or valid.
For an theist to say "unless I see evidence, I will not waste my time with gods", is not the same as a religious person saying, "I believe in god", (even though there is no evidence), and will live as if it's true. I assume Dr. Eagleman's good faith here, but it's walking too close to the line, of religionists, saying atheism is a religion. I personally have very good, historical reasons, for rejecting both Yahweh, and Jeebus, and every other human invention of religion. To equate a refuted set of assertions, with making none, is not at all, in any way, an equivalency.

2. Eagleman is a great Neuroscientist. He enjoys writing fiction, and using his immagination, in his free time to cook up stuff, even though there is no evidence for it. Good for him. I like to play the piano, and surf. However we both have a limited amount of time here on Earth, and we both have to make decisions on how our limited time will be used. If he wants to spend his, cooking up fantacies, that's his business. I use my time another way. Neither has any greater objective worth than the other. But his time is limited. He knows that people's brains have lesions, which cause their mentation to go off the rails, and that there is not a shred of evidence that consciousness extends beyond the working of physical brains. Saying "we don't know what happens when we die", is a little disingenuous, coming from someone who has no evidence that mentation exists apart from a working brain. We DO know what happens when we die. Our brains stop working. We "experienced" nothing before we were born, (and actually for some time later, and will not when we die. In light of the fact that diseased brains don't work right, and he knows that, to say "we don't know", is preposterous.
He does know.
3. Possibilianism is, or could be, chaos. We have good reasons for pursuing, and not pursuing the things we do. Thinking "outside the box", is useful, sometimes, but we know why going down most alleys, is a waste of time. A flash of insight, or "aha" moment occurs, once in a while, but usually in context of an avenue of inquiry, which was already on a productive pathway. It's not a ''random" event. Things get unexpectedly connected, but not totally random things.

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24-08-2012, 07:37 PM
The elegant nature of science
(24-08-2012 07:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I discovered Dr. David Eagleman, recently.

Where was he hiding? Huh

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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24-08-2012, 07:39 PM
RE: The elegant nature of science
(24-08-2012 07:37 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(24-08-2012 07:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I discovered Dr. David Eagleman, recently.

Where was he hiding? Huh

He was waiting, all that time, just for ME to find him.

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24-08-2012, 07:42 PM
The elegant nature of science
(24-08-2012 07:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-08-2012 07:37 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Where was he hiding? Huh

He was waiting, all that time, just for ME to find him.

Sounds so romantic. Weeping

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24-08-2012, 07:46 PM
RE: The elegant nature of science
(24-08-2012 07:42 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(24-08-2012 07:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  He was waiting, all that time, just for ME to find him.

Sounds so romantic. Weeping

No. Just utterly egocentric. Sad

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24-08-2012, 07:52 PM
The elegant nature of science
(24-08-2012 07:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-08-2012 07:42 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Sounds so romantic. Weeping

No. Just utterly egocentric. Sad

My version was sweeter. Heart

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25-08-2012, 07:41 AM
RE: The elegant nature of science
I found this to be a fascinating documentary.

Why humans create art.
A $60,000,000.00 two inch piece of limestone.
What Seagulls taught us about prehistoric porn
...and perfect naked men at the bottom of the sea.

Documentary - BBC How Art Made The World 1 - More Human Than Human.



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