The fall, and the first sin
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03-03-2016, 12:54 PM
The fall, and the first sin
Here's an interesting way to look at the Christian concept of the fall, and God's damnation of humanity.

God punishing humans for eating of the fruit from the tree is like humans putting a self destruct button to their home in a mouse cage, and getting upset when the mouse pushes it.

The intuition I'm trying to get at is that it's both childish, and unjust.

Thoughts, opinions? Are there any problems with that thought experiment that I haven't noticed? Or should I toss it and start over?
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03-03-2016, 01:36 PM
RE: The fall, and the first sin
(03-03-2016 12:54 PM)DavidCG Wrote:  Here's an interesting way to look at the Christian concept of the fall, and God's damnation of humanity.

God punishing humans for eating of the fruit from the tree is like humans putting a self destruct button to their home in a mouse cage, and getting upset when the mouse pushes it.

The intuition I'm trying to get at is that it's both childish, and unjust.

Thoughts, opinions? Are there any problems with that thought experiment that I haven't noticed? Or should I toss it and start over?

The problem I see is that God, if he is what Christians portray him to be, should be incapable of being hurt or offended by anything we do. So Eve and Adam eating the forbidden fruit did not harm God in any way.

Therefore, a better analogy would be to get upset, or punish the mice, for pushing a button that does nothing at all.
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03-03-2016, 01:39 PM
RE: The fall, and the first sin
(03-03-2016 12:54 PM)DavidCG Wrote:  Here's an interesting way to look at the Christian concept of the fall, and God's damnation of humanity.

God punishing humans for eating of the fruit from the tree is like humans putting a self destruct button to their home in a mouse cage, and getting upset when the mouse pushes it.

The intuition I'm trying to get at is that it's both childish, and unjust.

Thoughts, opinions? Are there any problems with that thought experiment that I haven't noticed? Or should I toss it and start over?

Here's another interesting way to look at christardology: It's all bull shit.

Marburg virus, Ebola, Rabies, HIV, Smallpox, Hantavirus, Dengue Fever all brought to you by god - who cares for us and loves us all Censored
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03-03-2016, 01:40 PM
RE: The fall, and the first sin
How come the 'all-knowing' god didn't know that they would eat the fruit? Why is fucking god always getting surprised?

He comes across as more of a substitute teacher with a shitty class than a "god."

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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03-03-2016, 01:54 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2016 02:33 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The fall, and the first sin
Well, yes. That's a Fundamentalist Christian reading of an ancient Hebrew myth.
They grind it up, and spit it out, to suit their emerging cult.
They needed to cook up a reason to keep their new religion going, after the fall of Jerusalem, when the "end times" did not happen, as Jesus and Paul had fully expected.

As a Hebrew myth, it had nothing, (AT ALL) to do with "a fall". It was a Hebrew reinterpretation of the Babylonian "chaos vs order" myth, (using many common elements from the ancient Near East ... called "syncretism"), and in that sense was quite remarkable, and rather advanced for it's time, so much so, that even Paul Tillich (famous liberal Christian theologian of the 20th C), pretty much uses that understanding in writing his book on morality "The Courage To Be", as did the Jewish philosopher, Martin Buber.

You can be sure any Christian re-reading of ancient Hebrew texts, pretty much mangles the living crap out of them, and makes them all but unrecognizable.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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03-03-2016, 04:40 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2016 04:52 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: The fall, and the first sin
I think the best analogy I've heard relating to "the fall" is that it's like leaving your kids in a room with poisoned brownies and telling them not to eat it, then just leaving them alone. Anyone would say this is bad parenting and if they did eat them and get sick you could be charged with child endangerment. It's clear both Adam and Eve were naive and easily tempted, not sure of what was right in the situation so they were like little kids.

If anything the whole story teaches us to go against authority, that we should use our critical thought to make our own choices and that being "tempted" to do something just means it's our responsibilty to pay for the consequences of it. It doesn't mean we should be punished unfairly since it's really the only rule God gave them, he could've just given them a warning or something but "Nope! One strike you're out!" Then later an innocent God man had to die horribly to make it all better but we still have sin? Yeah makes sense.
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03-03-2016, 04:54 PM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2016 05:10 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: The fall, and the first sin
(03-03-2016 01:40 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  How come the 'all-knowing' god didn't know that they would eat the fruit? Why is fucking god always getting surprised?

He comes across as more of a substitute teacher with a shitty class than a "god."

You make a great point and it just shows that many of the OT stories make God out to be just like a man, a very powerful, old, immortal man but he's just a man. He's not all knowing or all good. He's just magical and has a bad attitude.
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03-03-2016, 05:05 PM
RE: The fall, and the first sin
I always reminded me of an old man catching his kids drinking or smoking or whatever, so he disowns them and kicks them out of the house.

Cain finding another tribe of human beings when he is supposed to be one of the only four (now three) humans on earth is another story.

Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

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03-03-2016, 06:43 PM
RE: The fall, and the first sin
He did that to test their obedience, but fun fact, he already knew they were goin to fail. There's were the problem begins, he condemned all humanity for the disobedience that he already knew was going to happen.

Don't worry though, it's all part of the divine plan!

"Skepticism is the first step towards truth" -Denis Diderot
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03-03-2016, 07:01 PM
RE: The fall, and the first sin
[Image: Ta-dah-Jesus_o_77112.jpg]

Sounds like a plan to me.

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