The foundational lie in the psyche
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13-07-2014, 01:04 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 07:24 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 05:56 PM)childeye Wrote:  True worship is drawn out by the object of worship.

I just call that introspection. ... Silly goose. ... Tongue
Worship is not the same as introspection.
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13-07-2014, 01:19 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(13-07-2014 01:04 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 07:24 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I just call that introspection. ... Silly goose. ... Tongue
Worship is not the same as introspection.

Surely you of all people should be able to cook up a redefinition to make them the same.
Your lines between established definitions and your own made up ones are rather murky, to say the least. Drinking Beverage

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-07-2014, 01:21 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
Empathy is not posting yucky unverifiable woolly garbage. Seriously. It's making me sad.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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13-07-2014, 01:27 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 05:55 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 05:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  So it means Love is the highest value.

Define "value". Define "highest". Define "love".
Are you serious? If not, just have me define define. Value=worth highest=greatest love=empathy
(12-07-2014 05:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  It answers how to treat our fellow man, our family and friends. How to esteem others through how we wish to be esteemed.

Quote:It does no such thing. Empathising with someone who disagrees with me does not make me agree with them. Reciprocity is an entirely distinct concept. Neither is sufficient to understand group interaction alone. Are you even trying?
Yes I am trying. I never meant to imply empathizing with someone who disagrees with you makes you agree with them. But it does restrain the reasoning that would hate those who disagree with you.

(12-07-2014 05:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  see above.

Quote:Good to know you haven't changed.

If questioned, crap out vacuous non-answers. If questioned further, re-assert the same meaningless non-answers. Ad infinitem. Profit.
I'm sorry, but explains/answers are rather the same.

(12-07-2014 05:44 PM)childeye Wrote:  It requires self sacrifice.

Quote:Experiencing empathy requires nothing, as it is a naturally occurring facet of human emotion. Are you even trying?
I assure you I'm trying. You misunderstand. I was saying empathy causes one to sacrifice self for others when obeyed.

Quote:The OP is incoherent drivel.
If you don't understand it, just say so. I don't mean to imply that you are stupid, but it really isn't that complicated. It simply means that Empathy is not a choice/decision made in the brain but the power of morality. Now if you wish to comment on that, then I would love to hear your sincere commentary.
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13-07-2014, 01:31 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(13-07-2014 01:27 PM)childeye Wrote:  Are you serious? If not, just have me define define. Value=worth highest=greatest love=empathy

Wrong. It's possible to imagine all sorts of situations where emapthy and "tough love" would be at odds with each other, and empathy would NOT be the ultimate highest value.

Do try harder, Childish.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-07-2014, 01:40 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(13-07-2014 01:19 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(13-07-2014 01:04 PM)childeye Wrote:  Worship is not the same as introspection.

Surely you of all people should be able to cook up a redefinition to make them the same.
Your lines between established definitions and your own made up ones are rather murky, to say the least. Drinking Beverage
I know this is your summation as to how I reason the existence of God. Indeed how can it not be? I've already said your reasoning is a fundamental contradiction based on your misunderstanding of the term God. And with God deemed as imaginary instead of the the highest value, it is not possible that any of my use of terms be viable in your view. But even this should at least point out to you that when you say God does not exist, and cut down others for saying He does, you are being disingenuous. For you know we are not talking about the same thing.
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13-07-2014, 01:42 PM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2014 01:52 PM by childeye.)
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(13-07-2014 01:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(13-07-2014 01:27 PM)childeye Wrote:  Are you serious? If not, just have me define define. Value=worth highest=greatest love=empathy

Wrong. It's possible to imagine all sorts of situations where emapthy and "tough love" would be at odds with each other, and empathy would NOT be the ultimate highest value.

Do try harder, Childish.
Childish says name one.
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13-07-2014, 01:51 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(13-07-2014 02:10 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 05:47 PM)childeye Wrote:  Yes and so do you.

Please explain the physical mechanisms involved.
I'm driving in my car and I don't like the way someone is driving. I begin to become impatient and angry. But then this voice/thought comes into my head showing me what I don't see. Perhaps this person is older and does not have the same driving capabilities that I take for granted. This dissuades my anger and then I feel like a jerk, and I ponder what a jerk I would be without God/empathy. Then I thank God, oh thank your Lord for without you I would be a jerk. Moreover a blind jerk that does not even see that they are a jerk, but thinks they are righteous.
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13-07-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(13-07-2014 12:43 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 06:25 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I do acknowledge that empathy is real, I just don't see any reason to call it "God".

You seemed to be implying that empathy or "God" as you call it is something more than a Human emotion. If all you're talking about is an emotion then I don't see why we need to call that "God".
Thank you true Scotsman, this is easy for me to understand and respond to. Yes, I am meaning to imply that empathy is more than just an emotion. I use the term empathy to describe an aspect of Love that is both objective and subjective at once in a moral sense. But more than that, I believe that there are many emotions that are dependent upon Love including happiness and anger. Without Love many emotions would not exist in either the presence or absence or perversion of it. As the highest value, it is the measure of many things, perhaps all things. There are in fact times we wish we couldn't feel at all.

But yet it is not that I am without empathy for you. I understand that this does not explain enough how God or Love is a person for you or for those on this forum. To answer that, I can only speak of instances in my life when I was in need of believing that Love was worth serving, and how in those times I prayed and He spoke to me and comforted me. He was there when no one else was. I cannot prove to you it was Him and not my imagination. Consequently I defend the existence of God as if I were defending the very foundation of the purpose for living with every fiber of my being. Atheism is a cold belief system counting Love as a bodily function, and the forming of life no different than the forming of molecules into stone.

Quote:I do think that there is a rational basis for choosing moral values so even if someone was born with a defective brain and was unable to feel empathy for others he could still be a moral person although it would take and extraordinary effort.

I believe morality is rational also, so long as Love defines the good. And because I do, I therefore also believe that immorality is irrational because Love defines the good. As a Christian, we have a term called sin which means a direction away from and in separation from God, that which is the good. To say that sin does not exist because there is no God, means the person who says it, is ignorant of what the term God means. This op not only recognizes that morality is rational, but also supplies that rational reasoning that would Love even your enemies.

Quote:I'm tempted to say that life is the highest value but a life without love would be miserable in my opinion. But I still don't see what any of this has to do with God. I certainly deny that there is a god and yet I have tons of empathy. I can hardly stand to kill a spider.
I believe you have great empathy. It is said that Jesus came to save the lost not the righteous. Consequently. I believe it is those whose hope in empathy has been shattered, that God reveals Himself to.

Childeye, You are all over the place. Like every other Christian I have ever met.

I specifically asked you: So just to verify. You are saying that "God" is a biological process (empathy or love) of certain organisms not limited to Humans, since as Bucky Ball pointed out other animals feel empathy, and not an all powerful consciousness that created everything by an act of conscious will, correct?

And in response you wrote: I would say that we experience God through a biological existence. I decline to answer the rest as I would rather explore God from a practical provable logic rather than superstition.

You declined to affirm, as a Christian, what your own religion teaches about God and your evasion was pointless because in this post you proceed to affirm that "love or God is a person".

You also acknowledge that you can't tell me how I can reliably distinguish what you call "God" from something that you may merely be imagining when you say "I cannot prove to you it was Him and not my imagination". Childeye, if what you call "God" is indistinguishable from something that you are imagining then it is imaginary.

I don't give a damn that you think "Atheism is a cold belief system". Atheism is not my belief system and you couldn't possibly know what I believe based on one item that I don't believe. You are an intellectually dishonest person and I don't deal with dishonest people. Your Christian brethren should be embarrassed by you.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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13-07-2014, 01:55 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 05:47 PM)Dom Wrote:  Childeye, it's time you started to worship me. I have tons more empathy than your current god. If it was up to me, no harm would come to any animal, and that includes people.
How would you do that?
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