The foundational lie in the psyche
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12-07-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 01:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 01:37 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  How does any of it have any objective basis. I notice you didn't answer my question as theist are want to do since they have no answer for it. How can I reliably distinguish what you call God from something you may merely be imagining?
Try to remember that this is taken from a Christian forum. To answer your question, I am seeing God as empathy. If that is confusing for you, just replace the term God with empathy so that the question of whether it is imagined is not viable. However if you mean to ask if I am imagining that God is empathy, the answer is yes.

Empathy is a conscious action. So you are saying that God is a conscious action in your mind and in the mind of every other believer. Got it.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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12-07-2014, 01:59 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 01:43 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 01:37 PM)childeye Wrote:  I'm just gave an honest assessment, but maybe I'm wrong.

The POINT was, your sentence was a non-sequitur, and you are unable to communicate in the English langage. Your post was FULL of Presuppositionalist crap, that no one here buys into AT ALL. The FIRST rule of debate is "Know your adversary".
No one here buys into any of the underlying assumptions for that crap, so why post it ?
Let us both try to avoid hypocritical reasoning. It doesn't necessarily follow that God is Love nor a made up superstition. Nonetheless we all have some moral Truth we reason upon that would rule our conscience as to how we treat our fellow man. We all have empathy.

I understand why you would say it is a non sequitur, based on your definition of God. Try to remember the post is pertaining to the definition of God as Love, which is a common definition in scripture and among Christians...

Why you would debate the fact that Love is the highest value in humanity makes no sense to me. We've covered this ground before.
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12-07-2014, 02:00 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 01:57 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 01:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  Try to remember that this is taken from a Christian forum. To answer your question, I am seeing God as empathy. If that is confusing for you, just replace the term God with empathy so that the question of whether it is imagined is not viable. However if you mean to ask if I am imagining that God is empathy, the answer is yes.

Empathy is a conscious action. So you are saying that God is a conscious action in your mind and in the mind of every other believer. Got it.

So the answer to my question is no, there is no reliable way to distinguish what you call God from something you may merely be imagining.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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12-07-2014, 02:03 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 01:57 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 01:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  Try to remember that this is taken from a Christian forum. To answer your question, I am seeing God as empathy. If that is confusing for you, just replace the term God with empathy so that the question of whether it is imagined is not viable. However if you mean to ask if I am imagining that God is empathy, the answer is yes.

Empathy is a conscious action. So you are saying that God is a conscious action in your mind and in the mind of every other believer. Got it.
I see empathy as the ability to share in other peoples feelings. I don't believe it is a conscious action although it may result in one.
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12-07-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:00 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 01:57 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Empathy is a conscious action. So you are saying that God is a conscious action in your mind and in the mind of every other believer. Got it.

So the answer to my question is no, there is no reliable way to distinguish what you call God from something you may merely be imagining.
Empathy is not imagined. Empathy is real. Therefore what I call God, is not imagined.
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12-07-2014, 02:11 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 02:15 PM by true scotsman.)
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:03 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 01:57 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Empathy is a conscious action. So you are saying that God is a conscious action in your mind and in the mind of every other believer. Got it.
I see empathy as the ability to share in other peoples feelings. I don't believe it is a conscious action although it may result in one.

How is the ability to share in another's feelings not a conscious action? Emotions don't exist objectively. They are a form of consciousness. Since I can't literally feel what another is feeling I have to imagine how I would feel in a similar situation. So if God is empathy he does not exist outside of your consciousness.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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12-07-2014, 02:22 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:11 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 02:03 PM)childeye Wrote:  I see empathy as the ability to share in other peoples feelings. I don't believe it is a conscious action although it may result in one.

How is the ability to share in other's feelings not a conscious action. emotions don't exist objectively. They are a form of consciousness. Since I can't literally feel what another is feeling I have to imagine how I would feel in a similar situation. So if God is empathy he does not exist outside of your consciousness.

Empathy exists both inside and outside my consciousness. When someone Loves me I am moved. When charity is given to someone in need their suffering is eased. There is an objective view of morality that takes place in contemplating treat others as I would want to be treated.
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12-07-2014, 02:23 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:11 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  So if God is empathy he does not exist outside of your consciousness.

Maybe you're not familiar with childeye logic™.

It goes like this:
1. God is love/empathy.
2. Love/empathy exists.
3. Therefore God exists.
4. Therefore Bible.
5. ??
6. Profit!

Attempting to explain why any and all of these steps are unwarranted is as productive as smashing your face repeatedly into a brick wall, and only a tiny bit more entertaining.

... this is my signature!
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12-07-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 01:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  To answer your question, I am seeing God as empathy.

So you're saying that animals have empathy because of the existence of a non-corporeal being that is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent and not because certain areas of the brain get activated by certain sensory stimuli?

A neurological basis for the lack of empathy in psychopaths

Quote:When highly psychopathic participants imagined pain to themselves, they showed a typical neural response within the brain regions involved in empathy for pain, including the anterior insula, the anterior midcingulate cortex, somatosensory cortex, and the right amygdala. The increase in brain activity in these regions was unusually pronounced, suggesting that psychopathic people are sensitive to the thought of pain.

But when participants imagined pain to others, these regions failed to become active in high psychopaths. Moreover, psychopaths showed an increased response in the ventral striatum, an area known to be involved in pleasure, when imagining others in pain.


Another question. Why do you assume that the mental function of empathy has a non-neural basis but other mental functions such as visual processing, memory and motor co-ordination do have a neurological basis? Singling out empathy is special pleading. It is also not consistent with scientific evidence. If there is a neural basis for empathy then there should be cases of people losing their ability to empathise due to brain damage.


Lack of empathy following traumatic brain injury associated with reduced responsiveness to anger

Quote:Egocentric, self-centred, and insensitive to the needs of others: these social problems often arise in people with severe traumatic brain injury (TBI) and have been attributed in part to a loss of emotional empathy, the capacity to recognise and understand the emotions of other people.
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12-07-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 02:11 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  How is the ability to share in other's feelings not a conscious action. emotions don't exist objectively. They are a form of consciousness. Since I can't literally feel what another is feeling I have to imagine how I would feel in a similar situation. So if God is empathy he does not exist outside of your consciousness.

Empathy exists both inside and outside my consciousness. When someone Loves me I am moved. When charity is given to someone in need their suffering is eased. There is an objective view of morality that takes place in contemplating treat others as I would want to be treated.

It exists outside of your consciousness in the consciousness of others. You are not describing anything other than Human emotions, Human capacities, Human attributes. What does any of that have to do with God?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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