The foundational lie in the psyche
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15-07-2014, 10:55 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(15-07-2014 10:49 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 10:32 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  If this were true, then there is no way you would even attempt to use the bible as an accurate depiction of what you call god. Fail to the umpth degree, my friend. Your shortcoming is attempting to paint yahweh as an ultimate love, when the god of the bible is demonstrably anything but.
I don't try to use the bible as an accurate depiction of God. I never have. Sure, the Gospel is in there, but that is not why I believe in the Christ. I believe/trust in the Christ because his was a Love that never condemned anyone even when they beat him, stripped him, crucified him. This man Loved unto death. I can't help but be moved.

But you are referring to the Old Testament scriptures when God was depicted as a cruel tyrant. I only had to read that Satan was in his place of power during this time to understand how that could be.

Facepalm

Annnnnnd the tap dance continues...


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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15-07-2014, 11:10 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(15-07-2014 10:49 PM)childeye Wrote:  I believe/trust in the Christ because his was a Love that never condemned anyone even when they beat him, stripped him, crucified him. This man Loved unto death. I can't help but be moved.

Me either, especially when Mel Gibson tells it. Thumbsup
Again, there is no substantial evidence that this is nothing more than a story.

(15-07-2014 10:49 PM)childeye Wrote:  But you are referring to the Old Testament scriptures when God was depicted as a cruel tyrant. I only had to read that Satan was in his place of power during this time to understand how that could be.

Soooo was he on vacation and had his cell phone turned off? Again we come to the dilemma of whether god was powerless or indifferent. Again the theology is self contradictory. How do we reconcile it?

Protip: It's all man-made fiction. The world easily makes more sense without your god in it. You will never overcome this fact.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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15-07-2014, 11:44 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(15-07-2014 10:49 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't try to use the bible as an accurate depiction of God. I never have. Sure, the Gospel is in there, but that is not why I believe in the Christ. I believe/trust in the Christ because his was a Love that never condemned anyone even when they beat him, stripped him, crucified him. This man Loved unto death. I can't help but be moved.

But you are referring to the Old Testament scriptures when God was depicted as a cruel tyrant. I only had to read that Satan was in his place of power during this time to understand how that could be.

So you liked a fairy story. No shame in that. What is shameful is being so bloody impressed by the said fairy story that you decided it was true purely based on your emotions.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-07-2014, 03:49 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(15-07-2014 10:55 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 10:49 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't try to use the bible as an accurate depiction of God. I never have. Sure, the Gospel is in there, but that is not why I believe in the Christ. I believe/trust in the Christ because his was a Love that never condemned anyone even when they beat him, stripped him, crucified him. This man Loved unto death. I can't help but be moved.

But you are referring to the Old Testament scriptures when God was depicted as a cruel tyrant. I only had to read that Satan was in his place of power during this time to understand how that could be.

Facepalm

Annnnnnd the tap dance continues...

He thinks (as per his usual) he's in "The Last person to post wins" thread.
Another 100 pages of crap. Seriously ? WTF is he doing here ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-07-2014, 09:49 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(15-07-2014 06:35 PM)childeye Wrote:  Since crucifixion is worse than rape, I felt it was relevant.
And you thought wrong. It's completely a different issue. One could say endlessly torturing someone for years on end is worse than rape too, but that too would be irrelevant to the question. One could surmise that when a person repeatedly avoids answering the real question, it means the person can't answer it. Is that really how you want to leave this? Consider

(15-07-2014 06:35 PM)childeye Wrote:  According to scripture, despite God's warning not to eat, mankind ate of the knowledge of good and evil. It should not be surprising that mankind experiences good and evil.
Hell yes, it's surprising. Every bit of it is God's design according to you. God created good and evil. God created the circumstances where a tree would impart the knowledge of both. God placed Adam and Eve in a position of temptation. God allowed the snake to be involved and increase that temptation. God created the environment whereby Adam and Eve's failing somehow mysteriously got passed on to all their innocent descendants along with not only the knowledge, but all the atrocious consequences. It's ALL God! God, being omnipotent, could easily have done whatever he was trying to accomplish with this some other more merciful, more sensible way, but he chose not to.

(15-07-2014 06:35 PM)childeye Wrote:  But God has sent his Son as a propitiation for sin and this Love that returns good for evil heals all sorrows.
But God sent his Son himself as propitiation atonement for his sin and this Love that returns good for evil heals all sorrows. admission of his mistakes accomplished nothing because evil and sorrow still abound.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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16-07-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(15-07-2014 11:10 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 10:49 PM)childeye Wrote:  I believe/trust in the Christ because his was a Love that never condemned anyone even when they beat him, stripped him, crucified him. This man Loved unto death. I can't help but be moved.

Quote:Me either, especially when Mel Gibson tells it. Thumbsup
Again, there is no substantial evidence that this is nothing more than a story.
It pleases me to hear that you are moved by the Christ. It doesn't matter whether there is proof he existed since the Gospel proves the hearer not the teller. You want proof of Jesus' existence? Why? If you had that proof, that would not make you a Christian. The power of the Gospel to judge the world and create the children of God is the imagery of God held therein, not the fact of Gods existence held therein.

(15-07-2014 10:49 PM)childeye Wrote:  But you are referring to the Old Testament scriptures when God was depicted as a cruel tyrant. I only had to read that Satan was in his place of power during this time to understand how that could be.

Quote:Soooo was he on vacation and had his cell phone turned off?
Funny.
Quote: Again we come to the dilemma of whether god was powerless or indifferent. Again the theology is self contradictory. How do we reconcile it?
A false dichotomy. If scripture is to be believed, mankind partook of the knowledge of good and evil despite God's warning. If so, then the fact that we experience evil to know the good should not be blamed on God's indifference nor is any claim that He is powerless valid. Or shall I say, He is powerless to change what He himself has declared, without becoming a liar about what He first declared. Or shall I say, He can only change the outcome of what He Himself declared by sacrificing Himself.

Quote:Protip: It's all man-made fiction. The world easily makes more sense without your god in it. You will never overcome this fact.
I hope you realize, that to me, you have just said that the world easily makes more sense without any belief in goodness, empathy, Love. There, I just overcame your so called fact.
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16-07-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(15-07-2014 11:44 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 10:49 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't try to use the bible as an accurate depiction of God. I never have. Sure, the Gospel is in there, but that is not why I believe in the Christ. I believe/trust in the Christ because his was a Love that never condemned anyone even when they beat him, stripped him, crucified him. This man Loved unto death. I can't help but be moved.

But you are referring to the Old Testament scriptures when God was depicted as a cruel tyrant. I only had to read that Satan was in his place of power during this time to understand how that could be.

So you liked a fairy story. No shame in that. What is shameful is being so bloody impressed by the said fairy story that you decided it was true purely based on your emotions.
I don't see how I could approve of the Truth of an emotion as good without knowing what emotions are good. Buy even so, I think goodness is perfectly rational.
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16-07-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 02:58 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 11:44 PM)morondog Wrote:  So you liked a fairy story. No shame in that. What is shameful is being so bloody impressed by the said fairy story that you decided it was true purely based on your emotions.
I don't see how I could approve of the Truth of an emotion as good without knowing what emotions are good. Buy even so, I think goodness is perfectly rational.

Circular "logic" at it's finest. Your entire vacuous and shallow theology boils down to If A is false I will feel sad. I do not wish to feel sad so A is true.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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16-07-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 09:49 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 06:35 PM)childeye Wrote:  Since crucifixion is worse than rape, I felt it was relevant.
And you thought wrong. It's completely a different issue. One could say endlessly torturing someone for years on end is worse than rape too, but that too would be irrelevant to the question. One could surmise that when a person repeatedly avoids answering the real question, it means the person can't answer it. Is that really how you want to leave this? Consider
Here's the problem. If scripture is to be believed, mankind partook of the knowledge of good and evil despite God's warning. If so, then the fact that we experience evil to know the good, should not be blamed on God's indifference. Nor is any claim that He is powerless valid. Or shall I say, He is powerless to change what He himself has declared, without becoming a liar about what He first declared. Or shall I say, He can only change the outcome of what He Himself declared by sacrificing Himself.
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16-07-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 03:05 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 09:49 AM)Impulse Wrote:  And you thought wrong. It's completely a different issue. One could say endlessly torturing someone for years on end is worse than rape too, but that too would be irrelevant to the question. One could surmise that when a person repeatedly avoids answering the real question, it means the person can't answer it. Is that really how you want to leave this? Consider
Here's the problem. If scripture is to be believed, mankind partook of the knowledge of good and evil despite God's warning. If so, then the fact that we experience evil to know the good, should not be blamed on God's indifference. Nor is any claim that He is powerless valid. Or shall I say, He is powerless to change what He himself has declared, without becoming a liar about what He first declared. Or shall I say, He can only change the outcome of what He Himself declared by sacrificing Himself.


If they had no knowledge of good or evil how could they know it was wrong to do so?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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