The foundational lie in the psyche
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16-07-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:04 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 03:30 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I see you skipped the next part of my previous reply which renders everything you just said (or in essence repeated) moot.

And this is hilarious:
You do realize that your omnipotent god knows everything in the future, right? So then he knew all of this would be the outcome before it ever happened and, if he had wanted it to be different, he would have made it different before it ever happened. But no, he chose exactly this entire situation with Adam and Eve, knowledge of good and evil, original sin, descendants suffering tremendously over the eating of an apple by their ancestors, etc.

Clearly your God chose that many kids would be raped or would suffer horrible, painful deaths. This is exactly how your god wanted it no matter how many contortions you put yourself through attempting to shift the blame elsewhere. It's your gods design, your god's desire, and your god is fully to blame.
I understand your point. What is wrong about your attitude is that you have not seen the outcome after all is said and done.

No matter what the outcome, he (for the fun of it?) subjected beings that he created to indescribable suffering since the beginning of time - most for no reason at all, such as babies who have no bad thoughts he could use as excuse.

It is unreasonable and excessive punishment for something he arranged to happen.

I don't think that the end justifies the means, and I see zero justification for such horrible actions. Thank goodness the story is only made up. This god puts godzilla and Hitler to shame.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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16-07-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:15 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 04:59 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  This is very simple to anyone with 2 seconds thought. If A&E were without any knowledge of good or evil they would be like small children. When small children misbehave it is the fault of their parents for not teaching them better. It would be like a toddler touching a hot stove so a parent throws them out of the house for being disobedient.
I see. So you have kids that never misbehave I take it?

I've never kicked a toddler out of the house for misbehaving no.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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16-07-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 04:57 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 04:55 PM)childeye Wrote:  You will have to explain to me how it is God's fault that Adam and Eve sinned.

First you will have to explain how there was "an" Adam and Eve, which are totally dis-proven by Evolution, and who we know were taken from both Canaanite myths and Babylonian myths.
You should know better. This is all imagery.
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16-07-2014, 05:17 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:16 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 05:15 PM)childeye Wrote:  I see. So you have kids that never misbehave I take it?

I've never kicked a toddler out of the house for misbehaving no.
But it's your fault they misbehaved right?
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16-07-2014, 05:19 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:17 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 05:16 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  I've never kicked a toddler out of the house for misbehaving no.
But it's your fault they misbehaved right?

Yes, it would be my responsibility to teach them right from wrong. Until the age of reason a parent is completely responsible for their child and since they had not attained reason it is your insane bronze age war gods fault.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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16-07-2014, 05:20 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 05:04 PM)childeye Wrote:  I understand your point. What is wrong about your attitude is that you have not seen the outcome after all is said and done.

No matter what the outcome, he (for the fun of it?) subjected beings that he created to indescribable suffering since the beginning of time - most for no reason at all, such as babies who have no bad thoughts he could use as excuse.

It is unreasonable and excessive punishment for something he arranged to happen.

I don't think that the end justifies the means, and I see zero justification for such horrible actions. Thank goodness the story is only made up. This god puts godzilla and Hitler to shame.
Typical. Never thankful for the good things. Always blaming God for the bad things. Ever think that it's all in our head how spoiled we are?
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16-07-2014, 05:24 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 05:17 PM)childeye Wrote:  But it's your fault they misbehaved right?

Yes, it would be my responsibility to teach them right from wrong. Until the age of reason a parent is completely responsible for their child and since they had not attained reason it is your insane bronze age war gods fault.
The freewill person believes we are taught right from wrong. The not freewill person believes Love does what is right and does not do what is wrong unless deceived. So it's your fault your children misbehave is what you're saying, because you didn't teach them. What do you do to punish yourself?
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16-07-2014, 05:28 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:16 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 04:57 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  First you will have to explain how there was "an" Adam and Eve, which are totally dis-proven by Evolution, and who we know were taken from both Canaanite myths and Babylonian myths.
You should know better. This is all imagery.

If that's true, then nothing you say is real.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-07-2014, 05:30 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2014 05:43 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:16 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 04:57 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  First you will have to explain how there was "an" Adam and Eve, which are totally dis-proven by Evolution, and who we know were taken from both Canaanite myths and Babylonian myths.
You should know better. This is all imagery.

It's imagery all right. It's allegorical for surrendering our childish naivete before the cold hard face of reason. The wages of sin are indeed the deep stark visceral realization of the permanence of death. I personally will not surrender my reason for some Pollyanna pie in the sky bullshit promise of a postmortem preservation of identity. But some of us apparently prefer to look at the world with a child's eye.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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16-07-2014, 05:32 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 03:34 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 03:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  If they had no knowledge of good or evil how could they know it was wrong to do so?
Heh, wow... so obvious and yet that had never occurred to me. I had always assumed because they had been told it was wrong, they therefore knew it was wrong. But they couldn't understand "wrong" if they had no knowledge of good and evil. So how could they have sinned!

Wow, you just made my day - thanks! Thumbsup
Yes sin progressed and mankind was not to blame, hence Jesus says forgive them they know not what they do.
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