The foundational lie in the psyche
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12-07-2014, 02:33 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:23 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 02:11 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  So if God is empathy he does not exist outside of your consciousness.

Maybe you're not familiar with childeye logic™.

It goes like this:
1. God is love/empathy.
2. Love/empathy exists.
3. Therefore God exists.
4. Therefore Bible.
5. ??
6. Profit!

Attempting to explain why any and all of these steps are unwarranted is as productive as smashing your face repeatedly into a brick wall, and only a tiny bit more entertaining.

I guess I don't and I never have. He is only confirming my premise that God is imaginary.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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12-07-2014, 02:34 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 02:11 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  How is the ability to share in other's feelings not a conscious action. emotions don't exist objectively. They are a form of consciousness. Since I can't literally feel what another is feeling I have to imagine how I would feel in a similar situation. So if God is empathy he does not exist outside of your consciousness.

Empathy exists both inside and outside my consciousness. When someone Loves me I am moved. When charity is given to someone in need their suffering is eased. There is an objective view of morality that takes place in contemplating treat others as I would want to be treated.

Empathy does not exist on its own, it is an emotion. Animals have emotions - they are biochemical processes.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-07-2014, 02:35 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:08 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 02:00 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  So the answer to my question is no, there is no reliable way to distinguish what you call God from something you may merely be imagining.
Empathy is not imagined. Empathy is real. Therefore what I call God, is not imagined.

The key phrase here is "what I call God". Calling something God doesn't make it God, except in your mind.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-07-2014, 02:36 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 02:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  Empathy exists both inside and outside my consciousness. When someone Loves me I am moved. When charity is given to someone in need their suffering is eased. There is an objective view of morality that takes place in contemplating treat others as I would want to be treated.

Empathy does not exist on its own, it is an emotion. Animals have emotions - they are biochemical processes.

Exactly. What childeye calls "God" is just a biochemical process in his head.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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12-07-2014, 02:38 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:36 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 02:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  Empathy does not exist on its own, it is an emotion. Animals have emotions - they are biochemical processes.

Exactly. What childeye calls "God" is just a biochemical process in his head.

And since there are a lot of heads out there it's no wonder people can't agree on what "God" is.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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12-07-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:08 PM)childeye Wrote:  Empathy is not imagined. Empathy is real. Therefore what I call God, is not imagined.

God is motor co-ordination.

Motor co-ordination not imagined. Motor co-ordination is real. Therefore what I call God, is not imagined.
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12-07-2014, 02:42 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  Empathy exists both inside and outside my consciousness.

Excellent! If empathy exists outside of consciousness then it must have some form of energy. That means that if we can somehow harness it then we can convert it to electricity and use it to power our homes and industry.
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12-07-2014, 02:45 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 12:36 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I have lots of empathy. I'm brimming with it. And I don't need to believe in imaginary beings to have empathy.

I totally agree.
Quote:Now I didn't ask you whether what you were talking about was imaginary, I already know it is.

But just above you said you have lots of empathy, so are you saying you are just imagining you do? Because empathy is what is being talked about in the post.

Some people believe they freely choose to be empathetic and others believe that empathy is not the product of human reasoning. Those are the two sides of the argument.

Quote: I asked you by what method can I reliably distinguish what you call God from something you may be merely imagining.

Answer the question. If you do you will be the first to do so in my experience.
I think you ask the question wrong. At face value I would say the answer is logic or common sense. Since you are using what I call God which is "empathy" as that which is to be distinguished from something merely imaginary. It would be like asking you what method can I reliably use to distinguish what you call empathy from something you may be merely imagining?
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12-07-2014, 02:51 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
Bud, changing the meaning of words ain't gonna make reality change to suit you.

God as in Christian God is not normally conflated with empathy. "God" is ambiguous, "empathy" is not. Why are you trying to use "God" in place of "empathy"?

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-07-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 02:34 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 02:22 PM)childeye Wrote:  Empathy exists both inside and outside my consciousness. When someone Loves me I am moved. When charity is given to someone in need their suffering is eased. There is an objective view of morality that takes place in contemplating treat others as I would want to be treated.

Empathy does not exist on its own, it is an emotion. Animals have emotions - they are biochemical processes.
Pooping and peeing is a biochemical process also, but people don't sacrifice their lives for the cause of pooping and peeing.
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