The foundational lie in the psyche
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16-07-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 07:02 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 06:29 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  He did though. He kicked them out of the garden for touching a stove. They were like children and instead of teaching them he kicked them out. That is the mark of a horrible neglectant parent. The kind that would have their children removed because they were unstable and abusive.
I'm out of my fifty posts and had to wait twenty minutes for this opportunity to post. This is my last post.

They didn't touch a stove okay? They partook of that which destroyed their innocence just as Satan desired. The reason they couldn't stay in the garden was because God did not want them eating of the tree of life. There are good reasons for that. The fact is, they had become corrupted and could not be allowed back until they had learned to appreciate from where they had fallen by falling.

The two flaming swords that guard the way to the tree of life are accuse and excuse. No hypocrisy is allowed in. Therefore, you are really onto something in noticing Adam and Eve could not help what they did. Many theists don't see that.
But God does.

The nature of the corruption that entered Adam and Eve is revealed in that they saw they were naked. Afterwards the effects of the knowledge of good and evil is seen in their offspring. Their first son is Cain and his reasoning is revealed by his offering and is different to the reasoning of his brother Abel. Both of these traits are in mankind, even on this forum.

For someone that says it's not factual, you're sure all tied up in the details of the facts of the story.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-07-2014, 07:35 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 07:11 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 07:05 PM)Dom Wrote:  Pray tell, which of us are the evil ones and which are the good?

I hope I'm evil.

You are far far worse than evil. You dissect evil. Evil_monster

(16-07-2014 07:11 PM)cjlr Wrote:  They're the ones with cookies, right?

Yup. Thumbsup

#sigh
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16-07-2014, 07:38 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 07:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 07:02 PM)childeye Wrote:  I'm out of my fifty posts and had to wait twenty minutes for this opportunity to post. This is my last post.

They didn't touch a stove okay? They partook of that which destroyed their innocence just as Satan desired. The reason they couldn't stay in the garden was because God did not want them eating of the tree of life. There are good reasons for that. The fact is, they had become corrupted and could not be allowed back until they had learned to appreciate from where they had fallen by falling.

The two flaming swords that guard the way to the tree of life are accuse and excuse. No hypocrisy is allowed in. Therefore, you are really onto something in noticing Adam and Eve could not help what they did. Many theists don't see that.
But God does.

The nature of the corruption that entered Adam and Eve is revealed in that they saw they were naked. Afterwards the effects of the knowledge of good and evil is seen in their offspring. Their first son is Cain and his reasoning is revealed by his offering and is different to the reasoning of his brother Abel. Both of these traits are in mankind, even on this forum.

They had no knowledge of good or evil. It is the same as locking a toddler in a room with a hot stove and then when they burn themselves kicking them out of your house. I believe you said you were a parent. Would you kick a baby out of your house for touching a stove you left on and then allowed them to touch because of your inattentiveness?

That's the issue with the myth of Adam and Eve. The talking snake isn't the problem -- it's bad instructions to begin with (a clear sign of poor leadership).

But it's still a myth, to explain why bad things happen. The talking snake and woman were the scapegoats. Pity it's the excuse that women aren't to be trusted that persists today.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-07-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 07:38 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 07:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  They had no knowledge of good or evil. It is the same as locking a toddler in a room with a hot stove and then when they burn themselves kicking them out of your house. I believe you said you were a parent. Would you kick a baby out of your house for touching a stove you left on and then allowed them to touch because of your inattentiveness?

That's the issue with the myth of Adam and Eve. The talking snake isn't the problem -- it's bad instructions to begin with (a clear sign of poor leadership).

But it's still a myth, to explain why bad things happen. The talking snake and woman were the scapegoats. Pity it's the excuse that women aren't to be trusted that persists today.

An "all-knowing, all powerful" parental figure failed and then blamed everyone else for their failure. It really is the sign of an abusive relationship. Over reaction, blaming everyone else, punishments that do not fit the offense. God is an abusive parent. Good thing he is also bad fiction.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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16-07-2014, 08:14 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 07:44 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 07:38 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  That's the issue with the myth of Adam and Eve. The talking snake isn't the problem -- it's bad instructions to begin with (a clear sign of poor leadership).

But it's still a myth, to explain why bad things happen. The talking snake and woman were the scapegoats. Pity it's the excuse that women aren't to be trusted that persists today.

An "all-knowing, all powerful" parental figure failed and then blamed everyone else for their failure. It really is the sign of an abusive relationship. Over reaction, blaming everyone else, punishments that do not fit the offense. God is an abusive parent. Good thing he is also bad fiction.

Well, sure; but to the bronze age goat herders, to whom the gods were not perfect and indeed far from it... It's perfectly cromulent mythology in the original context, which is wholesale cribbing by a bunch of desert schmucks overawed by the Egyptians, Assyrians, and Babylonians who surrounded them.

Problem being, the fuckwits like our dear OP here, who latch feverishly onto a demented deepity like "God is love", having found it emotionally satisfying on a primally uncritical level, and manage to simultaneously take for wholly literal the hodgepodge of polemic and historiography that particular random phrase got variously packaged with, while steadfastly ignoring or denying the many entirely contrary portions of that scattershot text.

Like "God is jealous". So let's review:
"God is love".
"God is jealous".
Therefore, by the transitive property, "love is jealous".

Hobo x 1000 wouldn't begin to cover it.

... this is my signature!
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17-07-2014, 10:30 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 04:55 PM)childeye Wrote:  Notice I form the Light and create darkness. He is the Light that creates darkness. Light is not created, it is His form.
Elsewhere in scripture, God is Light and in Him is no darkness.
It's convenient that you commented on this and completely ignored the part that I even bolded for you where God says God creates evil. Consider

(16-07-2014 04:55 PM)childeye Wrote:  Not so. The term evil is synonymous with darkness in that wherever light is not, darkness is there. Darkness cannot exist in the Light, yet Light can exist in the darkness. A foundational truth about deception is that lies are invented to oppose the Truth. It is not the other way around. the Truth was never invented to oppose the lies. The truth came first. The Light therefore came first. In the garden all began in trust not in distrust, etc...
If, by darkness, you mean evil, then why not just say so? So what you are really saying is that evil cannot exist in goodness (light), but goodness can exist in evil. I disagree. Neither can exist in the other, but I don't think it matters to the point anyway.

If I understand you correctly, you are trying to say God created goodness and then evil somehow automatically existed as it's opposite. But that's nonsense. You can have goodness without having evil. Goodness might lose its relevance, but it's a state of affairs that certainly is possible. Indeed, that's what you imagine heaven to be so you must believe it is possible. Evil is not automatic. It must have been created as part of your god's universe(s) if it was your god that created everything besides himself.

(16-07-2014 04:55 PM)childeye Wrote:  You will have to explain to me how it is God's fault that Adam and Eve sinned.
Already did that here.

Plus, Revenant has been explaining it to you too with the child burned from a stove example. If I as a parent leave my toddler in front of a hot stove, tell the toddler "don't touch" and leave the room, it is my fault if the toddler gets burned - all my fault - most especially if I know the mischievous sibling is lurking nearby who will probably come along and encourage the toddler to touch the stove. Next to God, Adam and Eve were toddlers with no knowledge at all of good and evil. They didn't know they were sinning by eating the apple, they only knew God had said not to. From their perspective, it was instructions from God, not a moral issue. So, to them, eating the apple might not have been smart since God said "don't", but it wasn't a sin. When they ate the apple, your god labeled it a sin. Then and only then it became a sin - but not actually a true sin because that requires knowledge of it and intention to sin. It was just a label for which all of humanity has supposedly been paying tremendously since. All your god's environment, all his rules, all his definitions, all his neglect when he left them alone, all his knowledge, all his doing, and all his fault.

(16-07-2014 05:04 PM)childeye Wrote:  I understand your point. What is wrong about your attitude is that you have not seen the outcome after all is said and done.
Yes I have. Those raped children have had their lives destroyed. You can't miss it, but somehow YOU seem to be missing it. My attitude... Pfft. Dodgy

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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17-07-2014, 10:42 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 06:10 PM)childeye Wrote:  So if the Father tells the child not to touch the stove, yet child touches the stove and burns themselves, can you change that?
No and the father would be wrong because what the father can do is make sure touching the stove is not even possible for the child. So if the child touches it anyway, the father failed at making sure it wasn't possible. It's no accident that my children, when they were younger, never touched a hot stove or electrical outlet or sharp knives or...

(16-07-2014 06:10 PM)childeye Wrote:  Why not blame the Father for even having a stove there in the first place? Why didn't he put a fence around it. Heck why not just conclude because there was a stove, the father put it there because he knew the toddler would touch it and the Father enjoyed the screaming? Why not blame the Fathers and the Mothers for everything that happens to all their children?
Exactly, why not? Up to the age where the child can make intelligent, informed decisions, the fathers and mothers should get the blame.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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17-07-2014, 05:18 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 07:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 07:02 PM)childeye Wrote:  I'm out of my fifty posts and had to wait twenty minutes for this opportunity to post. This is my last post.

They didn't touch a stove okay? They partook of that which destroyed their innocence just as Satan desired. The reason they couldn't stay in the garden was because God did not want them eating of the tree of life. There are good reasons for that. The fact is, they had become corrupted and could not be allowed back until they had learned to appreciate from where they had fallen by falling.

The two flaming swords that guard the way to the tree of life are accuse and excuse. No hypocrisy is allowed in. Therefore, you are really onto something in noticing Adam and Eve could not help what they did. Many theists don't see that.
But God does.

The nature of the corruption that entered Adam and Eve is revealed in that they saw they were naked. Afterwards the effects of the knowledge of good and evil is seen in their offspring. Their first son is Cain and his reasoning is revealed by his offering and is different to the reasoning of his brother Abel. Both of these traits are in mankind, even on this forum.

They had no knowledge of good or evil. It is the same as locking a toddler in a room with a hot stove and then when they burn themselves kicking them out of your house. I believe you said you were a parent. Would you kick a baby out of your house for touching a stove you left on and then allowed them to touch because of your inattentiveness?
No
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17-07-2014, 05:20 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 07:22 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 07:02 PM)childeye Wrote:  I'm out of my fifty posts and had to wait twenty minutes for this opportunity to post. This is my last post.

They didn't touch a stove okay? They partook of that which destroyed their innocence just as Satan desired. The reason they couldn't stay in the garden was because God did not want them eating of the tree of life. There are good reasons for that. The fact is, they had become corrupted and could not be allowed back until they had learned to appreciate from where they had fallen by falling.

The two flaming swords that guard the way to the tree of life are accuse and excuse. No hypocrisy is allowed in. Therefore, you are really onto something in noticing Adam and Eve could not help what they did. Many theists don't see that.
But God does.

The nature of the corruption that entered Adam and Eve is revealed in that they saw they were naked. Afterwards the effects of the knowledge of good and evil is seen in their offspring. Their first son is Cain and his reasoning is revealed by his offering and is different to the reasoning of his brother Abel. Both of these traits are in mankind, even on this forum.

For someone that says it's not factual, you're sure all tied up in the details of the facts of the story.
Sure since I seek to understand the intent.
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17-07-2014, 05:34 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 05:18 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 07:19 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  They had no knowledge of good or evil. It is the same as locking a toddler in a room with a hot stove and then when they burn themselves kicking them out of your house. I believe you said you were a parent. Would you kick a baby out of your house for touching a stove you left on and then allowed them to touch because of your inattentiveness?
No

Well congratulations then, you are a better parent than your supposedly perfect god.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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