The foundational lie in the psyche
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17-07-2014, 07:54 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 07:43 PM)childeye Wrote:  And you think I have a droll life?

The giggles are the morning after, the raucous rip roaring laughter happens the night before. Shy

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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17-07-2014, 09:09 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 05:41 PM)childeye Wrote:  The imagery is an explanation meant to understand how corruption entered into mankind. That's how I see it.

If it's imagery, then it explains nothing. It's a metaphor which explains nothing.
It was taken directly from the Babylonian myth system which was fascinated with order and chaos, not good and evil. Nothing "entered" anything. Things as they are, are a perfect organic flow. Dinosaurs got cancer. Life on this planet was never in a preter-naturally perfect state. There is no evidence for that. It always was the way we observe it. Science has explained why things "go off the rails". Myths are no longer needed.

Science has not explained why things go off the rails as you say. Mankind generally does have the tendency to cover up their nakedness in some manner of speaking. We see the greener grass in someone else's yard rather than be thankful for the grass we have. We often get our sense of satisfaction in comparison with others. Pride and envy exist and war and prejudice. You can believe it has always been that way, but I discover lies that produce spirits of darkness even as I see the Light.
There is a Spiritual Truth that is empathy and also that which perverts empathy. And it plays out every day in the lives of all people.
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17-07-2014, 09:17 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 05:42 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 05:20 PM)childeye Wrote:  Typical. Never thankful for the good things. Always blaming God for the bad things. Ever think that it's all in our head how spoiled we are?

Quote:I am very happy for the good things in my life. I spent a life time creating them for myself, earning them with hard work. Nobody but me got me to where I am today.
I'm sure you're happy for the good things in life. I'm sure you earned them in some respect. But you may have abilities others don't. Some people have handicaps that prevent them from being as successful as others. I see the severely handicapped more thankful for the little things we all take for granted.
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17-07-2014, 09:28 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 04:32 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So far Childeye has failed to establish his connection between Empathy and christianity,
That's easy, "forgive them they know not what they do" (while being crucified). The ultimate empathy.
Quote:failed the Problem of Evil,

Not. Evil exists to make good relevant.

Quote:failed the Fig tree,

You failed the fig tree. You said it was malevolence. As if the writers of scripture who are followers of Jesus were trying to teach the lesson that Jesus was malevolent.
Quote:and now failed the question of If A&E did not have the knowledge of good and evil how could they know that eating from the tree was evil.

Wrong. I knew they couldn't know it was evil over thirty years ago.
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17-07-2014, 09:37 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 09:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 04:32 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So far Childeye has failed to establish his connection between Empathy and christianity,
That's easy, "forgive them they know not what they do" (while being crucified). The ultimate empathy.

Sorry non sequitur as you claim that Yahweh is love (and nothing else) does not parse.


(17-07-2014 09:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  
Quote:failed the Problem of Evil,

Not. Evil exists to make good relevant.

Thus making your god a party to evil and thus not being love or omnibenevolent.

(17-07-2014 09:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  
Quote:failed the Fig tree,

You failed the fig tree. You said it was malevolence. As if the writers of scripture who are followers of Jesus were trying to teach the lesson that Jesus was malevolent.

He cursed an out of season tree for not bearing fruit. If not malevolent it is insane.

(17-07-2014 09:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  
Quote:and now failed the question of If A&E did not have the knowledge of good and evil how could they know that eating from the tree was evil.

Wrong. I knew they couldn't know it was evil over thirty years ago.

So if they couldn't know it was evil it was not a sin.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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17-07-2014, 09:39 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(16-07-2014 04:16 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(16-07-2014 04:06 PM)childeye Wrote:  A great and deep theological question with far reaching implications. I will scratch the surface.

May favorite part is how you follow this up immediately with a long post that in NO way addresses the point rev was making.

If they had no knowledge of good and evil how do they know that following the commands if god is a good thing to do. To which your response was basically "cause they did". As always some quality stupid. Yum fucking yum.

Oh also Adam didn't exist so...ya...
I never said because they did. I said all things began in faith. In other words, why do you suppose they never ate from the tree before the tempter proposed his lie? They trusted God when He said they would die if they ate. When one wants to understand these things they should read it with the intent to understand what the writer is trying to say. Not with the intent to find some reason to not believe it ever happened. This is imagery and should be perceived as such.
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17-07-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 09:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  Science has not explained why things go off the rails as you say. Mankind generally does have the tendency to cover up their nakedness in some manner of speaking. We see the greener grass in someone else's yard rather than be thankful for the grass we have. We often get our sense of satisfaction in comparison with others. Pride and envy exist and war and prejudice. You can believe it has always been that way, but I discover lies that produce spirits of darkness even as I see the Light.
There is a Spiritual Truth that is empathy and also that which perverts empathy. And it plays out every day in the lives of all people.

Unfortunately for you, science has explained why things go off the rails. You are just too uneducated in modern science to have read the explanations as you're too busy writing this trash. Science has explained envy, "greener grass", pride and envy. Empathy is a well known trait of many animal species. There is nothing spiritual about it. Rats have been demonstrated to have empathy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/h...story.html

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-07-2014, 09:59 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(15-07-2014 11:44 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 10:49 PM)childeye Wrote:  I don't try to use the bible as an accurate depiction of God. I never have. Sure, the Gospel is in there, but that is not why I believe in the Christ. I believe/trust in the Christ because his was a Love that never condemned anyone even when they beat him, stripped him, crucified him. This man Loved unto death. I can't help but be moved.

But you are referring to the Old Testament scriptures when God was depicted as a cruel tyrant. I only had to read that Satan was in his place of power during this time to understand how that could be.

So you liked a fairy story. No shame in that. What is shameful is being so bloody impressed by the said fairy story that you decided it was true purely based on your emotions.
Ohhh I see now. You meant "true" as in it happened. I thought you meant "true" as in someone would do that.
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17-07-2014, 10:09 PM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2014 10:15 PM by childeye.)
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 09:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(17-07-2014 09:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  Science has not explained why things go off the rails as you say. Mankind generally does have the tendency to cover up their nakedness in some manner of speaking. We see the greener grass in someone else's yard rather than be thankful for the grass we have. We often get our sense of satisfaction in comparison with others. Pride and envy exist and war and prejudice. You can believe it has always been that way, but I discover lies that produce spirits of darkness even as I see the Light.
There is a Spiritual Truth that is empathy and also that which perverts empathy. And it plays out every day in the lives of all people.

Unfortunately for you, science has explained why things go off the rails. You are just too uneducated in modern science to have read the explanations as you're too busy writing this trash. Science has explained envy, "greener grass", pride and envy. Empathy is a well known trait of many animal species. There is nothing spiritual about it. Rats have been demonstrated to have empathy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/h...story.html
Like I don't know that. Do you know what Spirit means? Spirit pertains to emotions as in those things we feel that motivate us to do this or that. You therefore contradict your self by claiming there is nothing spiritual about it even as you claim rats have empathy. Science points to survival of the species as the motive. A purely carnal approach. Science does not address the metaphysical. It does not explain why a rat would return good for evil.
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17-07-2014, 10:47 PM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2014 10:57 PM by childeye.)
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 09:37 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(17-07-2014 09:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  That's easy, "forgive them they know not what they do" (while being crucified). The ultimate empathy.

Quote:Sorry non sequitur as you claim that Yahweh is love (and nothing else) does not parse.
I never said nothing else. He is Spiritual Truth, Creator and all it implies.
(17-07-2014 09:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  Not. Evil exists to make good relevant.

Quote:Thus making your god a party to evil and thus not being love or omnibenevolent.
Making God the Light that shines in the darkness and evil is the direction away from the Light in degrees of darkness.

(17-07-2014 09:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  You failed the fig tree. You said it was malevolence. As if the writers of scripture who are followers of Jesus were trying to teach the lesson that Jesus was malevolent.

Quote:He cursed an out of season tree for not bearing fruit. If not malevolent it is insane.
So Jerusalem was out of season when he came and found it fruitless? It's a metaphor.

(17-07-2014 09:28 PM)childeye Wrote:  Wrong. I knew they couldn't know it was evil over thirty years ago.

Quote:So if they couldn't know it was evil it was not a sin.
Sin is a direction away from God, hence it is an action as well as a state of being. To not trust God is therefore a sin. I don't believe it was a willful sin. I don't think they saw it as distrusting God. I don't think they ever even felt distrust before. I think this was a dark feeling for Adam as he considered whether the woman was telling the truth.

Ask a Christian if Adam was sorry for what he did. And remember we're projecting here. They most likely will say yes, because he got kicked out of the garden. How many will answer yes, because he ended up counting God a self serving liar rather than trusting that God was faithful and always looking out for Adams best interests? How many will say Adam is sorry for hurting God? The subtlety of the lie is still alive in the psyche. God does not want to hear we're sorry we got kicked out of the garden. It is a false sorrow.

I have to go to bed now. I thank you for your time and rep points and I'm looking forward to your comments on my above thoughts about Adam and the foundational lie.
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