The foundational lie in the psyche
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18-07-2014, 12:17 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 09:59 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(15-07-2014 11:44 PM)morondog Wrote:  So you liked a fairy story. No shame in that. What is shameful is being so bloody impressed by the said fairy story that you decided it was true purely based on your emotions.
Ohhh I see now. You meant "true" as in it happened. I thought you meant "true" as in someone would do that.

Now you're making up your own definitions for "true". What does "true as in someone would do that" even mean?

You are incoherent.

So, are you now saying that the Jesus story (crucifixion, dying for sins, the whole so-called empathy thing) *didn't* happen, or are you saying that it doesn't *matter* if it happened or not, it's still somehow "true" in some bizarro world of your own?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-07-2014, 12:50 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(18-07-2014 12:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(17-07-2014 09:59 PM)childeye Wrote:  Ohhh I see now. You meant "true" as in it happened. I thought you meant "true" as in someone would do that.

Now you're making up your own definitions for "true". What does "true as in someone would do that" even mean?

You are incoherent.

So, are you now saying that the Jesus story (crucifixion, dying for sins, the whole so-called empathy thing) *didn't* happen, or are you saying that it doesn't *matter* if it happened or not, it's still somehow "true" in some bizarro world of your own?

When ever he begins to lose an argument he changes the meanings of his words and rearranges the goal posts. I think he lacks faith and comes here to make himself feel better about his religious belief. He gets a case of the warm fuzzies when he thinks about gawd.

I think his home life must be very dull...he can't talk to people in his real life about his version of "truth" (because they either have drank from the same vat of coolaid or they're tired of his preaching) so he comes here.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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18-07-2014, 01:38 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(18-07-2014 12:50 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  When ever he begins to lose

Laughat That's whenever he makes a post Tongue

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-07-2014, 06:00 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 10:09 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-07-2014 09:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Unfortunately for you, science has explained why things go off the rails. You are just too uneducated in modern science to have read the explanations as you're too busy writing this trash. Science has explained envy, "greener grass", pride and envy. Empathy is a well known trait of many animal species. There is nothing spiritual about it. Rats have been demonstrated to have empathy.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/h...story.html
Like I don't know that. Do you know what Spirit means? Spirit pertains to emotions as in those things we feel that motivate us to do this or that. You therefore contradict your self by claiming there is nothing spiritual about it even as you claim rats have empathy. Science points to survival of the species as the motive. A purely carnal approach. Science does not address the metaphysical. It does not explain why a rat would return good for evil.

No, that's not what 'spiritual' means. You are not allowed to have your own private definitions of words and use those to try to communicate.

And, no, science does not point to "survival of the species as the motive". That is just your misunderstanding of evolution.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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18-07-2014, 06:38 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
Can anyone please point me towards any post in this thread that has any bearing whatsoever on the thread title?

Thanks.

Dodgy

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18-07-2014, 06:57 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(18-07-2014 06:38 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Can anyone please point me towards any post in this thread that has any bearing whatsoever on the thread title?

Thanks.

Dodgy

^ This guy seems to be posting about it Tongue

Title is
a. meaningless drivel
b. click-bait

At least it's not as bad as the douche from around when I first signed up, who said something about sexy ladies in the title of his thread and then proceeded to make an OP all about *nothing* to do with sexy ladies. That was fucking evil.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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18-07-2014, 07:07 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(18-07-2014 06:57 AM)morondog Wrote:  ...
At least it's not as bad as the douche from around when I first signed up, who said something about sexy ladies in the title of his thread and then proceeded to make an OP all about *nothing* to do with sexy ladies. That was fucking evil.

Bastard!

Why would somebody do that?

That's just sick!

Angry

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18-07-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 10:47 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(17-07-2014 09:37 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  So if they couldn't know it was evil it was not a sin.
Sin is a direction away from God, hence it is an action as well as a state of being. To not trust God is therefore a sin. I don't believe it was a willful sin. I don't think they saw it as distrusting God. I don't think they ever even felt distrust before. I think this was a dark feeling for Adam as he considered whether the woman was telling the truth.

Ask a Christian if Adam was sorry for what he did. And remember we're projecting here. They most likely will say yes, because he got kicked out of the garden. How many will answer yes, because he ended up counting God a self serving liar rather than trusting that God was faithful and always looking out for Adams best interests? How many will say Adam is sorry for hurting God? The subtlety of the lie is still alive in the psyche. God does not want to hear we're sorry we got kicked out of the garden. It is a false sorrow.

I have to go to bed now. I thank you for your time and rep points and I'm looking forward to your comments on my above thoughts about Adam and the foundational lie.

Again you are pushing God as victim, that is impossible for an Omnimax being. Nothing can happen that he is unaware of and cannot change or he is not Omnipotent/Omniscient. Therefore he knew before he even began that this would happen and yet you claim he is the victim. No my friend God is the one at fault, much like the negligent father with the toddler he placed 2 innocents, who had no concept of what would happen if they did this thing, into a position of great peril and then blamed them when his own carelessness and inattention allowed them to be harmed.

Of course the story of Adam and Eve disproves the concept of an all powerful all knowing God. He displays not only lack of knowledge (not knowing where they were when they hid or what they had done) but shows him to not have the power to fix it. Now we know this story was just one of many stolen from the babylonians and was written from the perspective of an Oden or Zeus all father non-omnimax god which makes it more understandable why he was unaware how stupid he was being. His reaction is still monstrous and that of an abusive person but the bits that show him to not be Omni are explained. In fact Yahweh himself was just one of a pantheon at this time the 72nd son of El in the palestinian pantheon to be exact. Yahweh, lord of hosts god of the army.

What the intended message of this story is without presuppositional bs is quite simply do not think listen to what god (or more accurately the priest speaking for god) says and do what they say without thought, regardless of whether it makes sense or not. It is simply a control story used by the levites to exert control in what was a theocracy. Have you ever wondered why, if Yahweh was always poking in on Israel and Judah, did the jews keep going to other gods? The answer is simple, the levites were great at maintaining power but sucked at running a civilisation. One of the reasons they flipped from a Polytheist society to a Monotheist one was they thought that elevating their war god would bring them marshall success yet they were conquered by every major power to ever sniff at that region. So the people seeing their war god fail time and time again would wander away to other idols leaving the golden calf (the symbol of Yahweh in the northern kingdom) for greener pastures.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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18-07-2014, 10:18 AM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(17-07-2014 06:10 PM)childeye Wrote:  Yes I agree that there can be goodness without evil. Your point that goodness would lose relevance is exactly what I am trying to say. That is what the knowledge of good and evil basically implies. That is why darkness or evil would be created.
It's irrelevant that goodness would lose relevance though. Recall that we were originally talking about whether God created evil. You were saying evil came into being simply by goodness being created by God. Since you agree that goodness can exist without evil, then you should understand that evil was not in fact created automatically simply by God creating goodness. Evil exists because it was created by God. This is not what I personally believe, but it is what's consistent with the things you believe.

(17-07-2014 06:10 PM)childeye Wrote:  You make good points Impulse. Especially about any moral culpability due to their innocence. I see the same thing. And you have gone further than Revenant by also bringing in the mischievous sibling. Yes I understand why you would say it's all God's fault. I just don't think that's what we're supposed to draw from this scripture. That is not the point or intent of the writer. I see this scripture as a means to explain the purpose of our temporal existence. I see mankind as the means to destroy a vanity that is in heaven in the form of Satan. And in the process create the incorruptible children of God.
To sum that up: "Yeah that makes sense. But anyway what I was saying was..." Facepalm

I care none about anything I'm "supposed to draw from scripture". I only care about what is really there, what it really means, it's real implications, and most especially whether it's true at all - any of it. If you can believe anything in the Bible, that god is heinous. So, if that god wants me to see it a certain way, too bad. It is what it is, not what that god wants me to think it is.

(17-07-2014 06:10 PM)childeye Wrote:  I'm not missing it. There are greater things, Eternal things happening that no amount of evil can prevent. Romans 8:18-20King James Version (KJV)

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
So in other words, you don't care what evil things your god does or allows. Dodgy By the way, have you ever thought about the word "glory"? Why is glory so important to your god? An omnipotent god wouldn't care. The need or desire for glory is related to feelings, pride, and self-image - things that are only important to imperfect beings.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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18-07-2014, 03:30 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(18-07-2014 12:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(17-07-2014 09:59 PM)childeye Wrote:  Ohhh I see now. You meant "true" as in it happened. I thought you meant "true" as in someone would do that.

Quote:Now you're making up your own definitions for "true". What does "true as in someone would do that" even mean?
No really, I misunderstood you. I thought you were referring to why I felt it was true that this was what Godly Love would do. Notice I said, "I don't see how I could approve of the Truth of an emotion as good without knowing what emotions are good. But even so, I think goodness is perfectly rational." Notice I was referring to the Truth of the emotion as good, not the truth of whether it happened.




Quote:So, are you now saying that the Jesus story (crucifixion, dying for sins, the whole so-called empathy thing) *didn't* happen, or are you saying that it doesn't *matter* if it happened or not, it's still somehow "true" in some bizarro world of your own?
Both. I believe it happened, but to me it doesn't matter.
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