The foundational lie in the psyche
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
12-07-2014, 04:46 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 04:22 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 04:15 PM)childeye Wrote:  1. Empathy exists
2. Without empathy men are selfish
3. selfishness is immoral and destructive
4. Empathy is God
Complete and utter non-sequitur.
Looks logical to me. I see no non-sequitur.

Quote:What makes you assume that God is only the positive traits?
I know what is good, beautiful and true should be acknowledged as worthy to cultivate. The terms knowledge and ignorance reflect that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-07-2014, 05:04 PM (This post was last modified: 12-07-2014 05:08 PM by Mathilda.)
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 04:15 PM)childeye Wrote:  1. Empathy exists
2. Without empathy men are selfish
3. selfishness is immoral and destructive
4. Empathy is God

1. Empathy exists as a function of the brain
2. Without empathy animals are selfish
3. Selfishness is immoral only when judged to be so by other humans who themselves have empathy and have a created a moral code based on it. Selfishness is not necessarily destructive for the individual.
4. The statement "Empathy is God" does not lead on from any of the previous possible statements.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Mathilda's post
12-07-2014, 05:06 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 05:04 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 04:15 PM)childeye Wrote:  1. Empathy exists
2. Without empathy men are selfish
3. selfishness is immoral and destructive
4. Empathy is God

1. Empathy exists as a function of the brain
2. Without empathy animals are selfish, although the term 'selfish' is only considered a pejorative by others who themselves have empathy.
3. Selfishness is immoral only when judged to be so by other humans who themselves have empathy and have a created a moral code based on it. Selfishness is not necessarily destructive for the individual.
4. The statement "Empathy is God" does not lead on from any of the previous possible statements.

Thank you for saving me a chore...


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



My youtube musings: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfFoxbz...UVi1pf4B5g
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes CiderThinker's post
12-07-2014, 05:17 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 01:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  To answer your question, I am seeing God as empathy. If that is confusing for you, just replace the term God with empathy so that the question of whether it is imagined is not viable. However if you mean to ask if I am imagining that God is empathy, the answer is yes.

Damn, I must be very godlike then. People always tell me I have too much empathy and am too "soft hearted".

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dom's post
12-07-2014, 05:20 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 04:16 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
Quote:I'll be glad to clarify. By choice I mean and act of volition. Emotions are not volitional, they are automatic just as the process by which my brain turns sense data into percepts is automatic. values are conceptual and they come from the conceptual faculty which is very much a volitional faculty. Values have to be discovered. We don't automatically know what is good for us. Therefore we do have a choice about what we value. I arrived at my values by reason and though they are not biochemical in composition the process that led to them is.
You're the only person actually talking about the op in any meaningful way. I appreciate that. Actually Chas did have something to offer but he has not responded any further.

You first say values have to be discovered. I agree with that. They exist as something to learn through experience. I don't agree they are conceptual. I never conceived to hate being ridiculed or punched in the nose. Nor did I conceive that I like being liked. Moreover everyone shares the same common values. We all learn the same truths about life. Hence values exist apart from the wills of humans and they are not biochemical in composition.

I had asked: So just to verify. You are saying that "God" is a biological process of certain organisms not limited to Humans, since as Bucky Ball pointed out other animals feel empathy, and not an all powerful consciousness that created everything by an act of conscious will, correct?


You wrote in response: I would say that we experience God through a biological existence. I decline to answer the rest as I would rather explore God from a practical provable logic rather than superstition.
[quote]
I didn't ask you how you experience God.
I was just fixing your paraphrasing of what I am saying.

Quote: Since you *decline to answer* I have no idea what you mean when you say "God".
Oh yes you do. I mean empathy, the highest value.
Quote: I don't understand how you could refuse to answer this question given the subject of your post. So thrice I ask and done, how can I reliably distinguish what you call "God" from something you may merely be imagining? If you refuse to answer I'm going to just categorize you as another flaky mystic and move on.
The subject of the post is whether empathy is a choice/decision or whether it is a power that humans must value as the highest value to be good in the moral sense.

I've answered your question as best as I can in my best understanding of what it is you want to know. Basically I feel you're asking me what method you should use to reliably know I haven't imagined what I call God? You have already acknowledged that empathy is not imaginary. What method did you use? The question must be worded wrong. Try rephrasing the question.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-07-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 05:04 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 04:15 PM)childeye Wrote:  1. Empathy exists
2. Without empathy men are selfish
3. selfishness is immoral and destructive
4. Empathy is God

1. Empathy exists as a function of the brain
2. Without empathy animals are selfish
3. Selfishness is immoral only when judged to be so by other humans who themselves have empathy and have a created a moral code based on it. Selfishness is not necessarily destructive for the individual.
4. The statement "Empathy is God" does not lead on from any of the previous possible statements.
When I say treat others as you would want to be treated, does that ring true to you?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-07-2014, 05:25 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 04:46 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 04:22 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  Complete and utter non-sequitur.
Looks logical to me. I see no non-sequitur.

Quote:What makes you assume that God is only the positive traits?
I know what is good, beautiful and true, and should be acknowledged as worthy to cultivate. The terms knowledge and ignorance reflect that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
12-07-2014, 05:26 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 05:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(12-07-2014 05:04 PM)Mathilda Wrote:  1. Empathy exists as a function of the brain
2. Without empathy animals are selfish
3. Selfishness is immoral only when judged to be so by other humans who themselves have empathy and have a created a moral code based on it. Selfishness is not necessarily destructive for the individual.
4. The statement "Empathy is God" does not lead on from any of the previous possible statements.
When I say treat others as you would want to be treated, does that ring true to you?

Irrelevant 4 does not parse from any of the previous statements.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
12-07-2014, 05:28 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/09/ky...no&oswrr=1

In a world where this happens there can be no God who is emphatic and powerful. Either your God is a monster and deserves no praise or is powerless and therefore is no God.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Revenant77x's post
12-07-2014, 05:31 PM
RE: The foundational lie in the psyche
(12-07-2014 05:23 PM)childeye Wrote:  When I say treat others as you would want to be treated, does that ring true to you?

Define 'ring true'.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: