The free will fallacy
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-08-2017, 06:58 AM
RE: The free will fallacy
(02-08-2017 06:42 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(02-08-2017 06:30 AM)Thoreauvian Wrote:  I heard a rumor reported on a TV news show the other day that two computers which could learn on their own were communicating with each other in ways which even their programmers couldn't understand. That sounds like the premise of some science fiction story to me.

Hobo

Bots begin developing their own language

Fake news, huh? Not surprising, but too bad. That would have been so cool.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-08-2017, 04:20 PM
RE: The free will fallacy
[Image: 5854790f18134ccacc0c6ec16a7f9084.jpg]

Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket?
"Life is not all lovely thorns and singing vultures, you know." ~ Morticia Addams
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-08-2017, 02:34 PM
RE: The free will fallacy
I disagree to some degree with the premise of this argument. The reason why is because I do not believe that it requires some sort of free agency to use that kind of language. Desirable paths also don't rule out things like determinism being true, it would just be so that the desires are decided for that creature. They may not be able to control their actions but it's possible that the outside influence of reasoning may work in them in such a way that they follow the "should." even if it's not their choice.

Don't get me wrong here, I get what you're saying but what's the alternative word(s) if not should? Because even if determinism is true we still have the reality that there is a persistent illusion of free will and a very persistent illusion that words like should do work to invoke a sort of action in people. To me it doesn't matter if they use should, just like it wouldn't matter if we are all being manipulated by a demon to perceive the universe, thoughts,etc as we do. Whether it's illusion or not, the term is helpful in general speech. Even if granting it's not "correct"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
16-08-2017, 12:00 PM
RE: The free will fallacy
(15-08-2017 02:34 PM)Sauron Wrote:  I disagree to some degree with the premise of this argument. The reason why is because I do not believe that it requires some sort of free agency to use that kind of language. Desirable paths also don't rule out things like determinism being true, it would just be so that the desires are decided for that creature. They may not be able to control their actions but it's possible that the outside influence of reasoning may work in them in such a way that they follow the "should." even if it's not their choice.

Don't get me wrong here, I get what you're saying but what's the alternative word(s) if not should? Because even if determinism is true we still have the reality that there is a persistent illusion of free will and a very persistent illusion that words like should do work to invoke a sort of action in people. To me it doesn't matter if they use should, just like it wouldn't matter if we are all being manipulated by a demon to perceive the universe, thoughts,etc as we do. Whether it's illusion or not, the term is helpful in general speech. Even if granting it's not "correct"

> You have to click on the REPLY button (not the NEW REPLY button) so we can readily know who you are responding to.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2017, 11:59 PM
RE: The free will fallacy
(15-08-2017 02:34 PM)Sauron Wrote:  I disagree to some degree with the premise of this argument. The reason why is because I do not believe that it requires some sort of free agency to use that kind of language. Desirable paths also don't rule out things like determinism being true, it would just be so that the desires are decided for that creature. They may not be able to control their actions but it's possible that the outside influence of reasoning may work in them in such a way that they follow the "should." even if it's not their choice.

Don't get me wrong here, I get what you're saying but what's the alternative word(s) if not should? Because even if determinism is true we still have the reality that there is a persistent illusion of free will and a very persistent illusion that words like should do work to invoke a sort of action in people. To me it doesn't matter if they use should, just like it wouldn't matter if we are all being manipulated by a demon to perceive the universe, thoughts,etc as we do. Whether it's illusion or not, the term is helpful in general speech. Even if granting it's not "correct"

I would suggest language such as this:

"If things are strictly deterministic, then we will [do X]"

There is no "should" about it, because there are no other choices. Saying something is "desirable" seems redundant and misleading to me, if it's the only thing that can happen.

"If we discover that there is no free will (but that things are not strictly deterministic), then there is a high probability that we will stop putting people in jail."

This would be a prediction of what will actually happen, following a certain event (discovery of knowledge). Again, "should" implies that people would be wise to reconsider their actions based on the strength of the argument being presented.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Robvalue's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: