The go a little easy on theists thread
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03-02-2014, 10:36 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 09:59 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  There are certainly some very thoughtful and intelligent atheists, some of whom I have talked to on this site, but even on this site you will no doubt see several examples of assholes who are just as bad as those that drove you away from religion (Taqiyya Mockingbird, I am looking at you).

And you continue to run from refutations of your long-debunked bullshit and hide behind ad Hominem fallacies. Noted.


Quote: (although I came on this site originally to challenge those beliefs and see if the atheist community had any better arguments than those I had heard in the past).

Bullshit. You came here to proselytize and regurgitate your beloved kalaam horseshit over and over. You aren't looking to challenge it. If you were, you would be paying attention to the many refutations we have cited. You aren't, you disingenuous, lying son of a bitch.


Quote:If you actually still are looking for answers,

YOU were the one coming here claiming to be "looking for answers". We aren't looking for YOUR sort of "answers", or we wouldn't be here.


Quote: I'd encourage you not to throw out the baby with the bathwater and reject the existence of a creator because of your disillusionment with the church that claims to speak on his behalf.

Fucking straw man.

Quote:Because, if a creator exists...

You haven't shown any evidence that such a thing exists.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


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03-02-2014, 10:48 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 09:59 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  "True Theology".


,...... could be said to be an oxymoron.

just sayin

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03-02-2014, 10:49 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
All right then, I'll be the first one to own up to my mistakes. I've been quite frustrated with you recently, lookingforanswers, and finally lost my cool along with my patience in this thread. I'm sorry for insulting and disrespecting you.

(03-02-2014 10:34 AM)Logisch Wrote:  This is the first time I've responded to you in such a manner, therefore, I'd say from a consistency standpoint, it's consistent. Wink
But what I meant was... you know what, never mind. Sleepy

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03-02-2014, 10:51 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 10:49 AM)Vosur Wrote:  All right then, I'll be the first one to own up to my mistakes. I've been quite frustrated with you recently, lookingforanswers, and finally lost my cool along with my patience in this thread. I'm sorry for insulting and disrespecting you.

Awwwwww... that's nice.

...
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03-02-2014, 10:59 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 10:49 AM)Vosur Wrote:  All right then, I'll be the first one to own up to my mistakes. I've been quite frustrated with you recently, lookingforanswers, and finally lost my cool along with my patience in this thread. I'm sorry for insulting and disrespecting you.

I appreciate the apology Vosur. I did respond with insults myself and also goaded you on some occasions, and for that I apologize. Sometimes discussions of this sort get heated and it's tough to keep your cool. I will endeavor to keep mine.
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03-02-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 10:49 AM)Vosur Wrote:  All right then, I'll be the first one to own up to my mistakes. I've been quite frustrated with you recently, lookingforanswers, and finally lost my cool along with my patience in this thread. I'm sorry for insulting and disrespecting you.

(03-02-2014 10:34 AM)Logisch Wrote:  This is the first time I've responded to you in such a manner, therefore, I'd say from a consistency standpoint, it's consistent. Wink
But what I meant was... you know what, never mind. Sleepy


(03-02-2014 10:59 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 10:49 AM)Vosur Wrote:  All right then, I'll be the first one to own up to my mistakes. I've been quite frustrated with you recently, lookingforanswers, and finally lost my cool along with my patience in this thread. I'm sorry for insulting and disrespecting you.

I appreciate the apology Vosur. I did respond with insults myself and also goaded you on some occasions, and for that I apologize. Sometimes discussions of this sort get heated and it's tough to keep your cool. I will endeavor to keep mine.



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03-02-2014, 11:22 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 10:59 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  I appreciate the apology Vosur. I did respond with insults myself and also goaded you on some occasions, and for that I apologize. Sometimes discussions of this sort get heated and it's tough to keep your cool. I will endeavor to keep mine.

Awwww....how sweet! Blush

...
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03-02-2014, 12:29 PM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
quote='Logisch' pid='484196' dateline='1391448135']
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[/quote]




It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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03-02-2014, 12:33 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2014 04:26 PM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 10:59 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  I appreciate the apology Vosur. I did respond with insults myself and also goaded you on some occasions, and for that I apologize. Sometimes discussions of this sort get heated and it's tough to keep your cool. I will endeavor to keep mine.

Disingenuous and willfully dishonest behavior (such as your spamming regurgitated kalaam "arguments" in an atheist forum and refusing to acknowledge and/or address that it has and is being refuted and destroyed, and claiming to come here "looking for answers" when you are NOT) and those (YOU) who exhibit it are not civil and do not deserve civil treatment in return.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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03-02-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 09:59 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 08:50 AM)WindyCityJazz Wrote:  Yes, we should be more open-minded and loving like those Christians that write all that hate mail to people like Richard Dawkins. The things that drove me away from religion were the hatred and arrogance that so many Christians have for people who don't share their beliefs, and the fact that they could offer not one shred of evidence. All they did was regurgitate the same old garbage they had been indoctrinated to believe. You're not fooling anyone by trying to pose as someone that is actually looking for answers. You're just a creationist thinking you're witty by pretending to be somebody who is actually questioning their religion. When I looked for answers, atheists were the only ones that gave them to me. Creationists just spewed out the same crap they always do, never offering any real evidence for any of their claims.

Unfortunately, the problem is that so many humans are arrogant and focus on hatred. Try to remember that no matter what belief system you look into you will find really nice people and you will find assholes.You mentioned Richard Dawkins. Have you read 'The God Delusion'? There is certainly some intellect there, but Dawkins' words drip with arrogance, contempt, mockery and hate. I'm not surprised he gets hate mail, as 'The God Delusion' is basically the equivalent of hate mail printed in the form of an open letter. There are certainly some very thoughtful and intelligent atheists, some of whom I have talked to on this site, but even on this site you will no doubt see several examples of assholes who are just as bad as those that drove you away from religion (Taqiyya Mockingbird, I am looking at you).

Ironically, I often feel that I relate better to atheists than to a lot of Christians, despite growing up Christian, and it is because of what you mentioned there: the "regurgitation of indoctrinated beliefs". The part of Christianity that was my biggest problem with the faith was the idea of "blind faith".

Currently, I consider myself a deist, because while I ended up eventually rejecting the teachings of Christianity, the evidence of a creator's existence always seemed stronger to me than the atheist arguments for his non-existence (although I came on this site originally to challenge those beliefs and see if the atheist community had any better arguments than those I had heard in the past).

If you actually still are looking for answers, I'd encourage you not to throw out the baby with the bathwater and reject the existence of a creator because of your disillusionment with the church that claims to speak on his behalf.

Right now I'm reading The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine (one of the founding fathers of the U.S.), which I have found to be a fascinating read. Essentially, he rejects the religions of his time as being mythologies, mis-representing God and using those mis-representations to further their own good. He believes in science (although, keep in mind that it was written in the 1700's) and believes science to be the "True Theology". Essentially, he considers it absurd to believe in a deity that would communicate through the written word, which is easily capable of forgery, or through the word of individuals, whose reliability cannot be known for sure by the listener. Instead, he favours a deity who speaks through his creation (the Universe), which speaks to anyone who chooses to study it and cannot be forged. Therefore, he considers science as the "True Theology" as it studies the direct word of the creator, passed along through his creation.

Too often, people associate science and atheism (and I have been guilty of it as times, too), when they are really two different things. So, if you like the answers that science provides don't get confused and ascribe those answers to atheism, as atheism is a negative belief system (ie. it is defined by it's lack of belief in a creator) and doesn't really provide any answers. Keep in mind the perspective of Thomas Paine. Because, if a creator exists, then those answers that science is providing for you may just be the answers that you are getting through the study of the "True Theology".

It wasn't merely my experience with the negative attitudes of religious people that drove me away from religion. Like I said, when I questioned it, religious people simply regurgitated stuff that they had been indoctrinated with their entire lives, and many times simply avoided the question altogether. Religion wasn't something that I walked away from overnight. It was a slow process, but the evidence against it's claims kept mounting, until it reached a point where I realized that I could not get a sound argument for it from people who only believed in it because they had been indoctrinated with it.

I have read The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins, and very much enjoyed it. I do not find his attitude towards creationists to be hateful, merely a hard reality check at their beliefs. I don't think that anybody deserves to get hate mail, and when I say hate mail I'm not talking about letters that say "I don't agree with you, and here is why:" or "I think you are being unreasonable". These people were writing emails to him saying "I hate your fucking guts!" and "I hope you die!" Hate is always unacceptable, and I have never seen or heard Dawkins do anything on that kind of level. The problem is that our society gives religion a free pass when it comes to criticism, and if somebody goes and criticizes religion, people lambaste that person and treat them like they are making a personal attack out of disrespect, and that is bullshit. People got infuriated with Dawkins for questioning the fact that religion is often allowed to be free from criticism - and Dawkins is right. Why should religion get a free pass? Why should it not be held to the same standards as everything else and be questioned and require proof for it's claims? One of the things I learned is that you can bet a million bucks that anything that says that it is not to be questioned is bullshit. The whole reason religion doesn't like being questioned is because it knows it will be shown to be false. If something is true, then it should be able to stand up to any kind of questioning. If any religion is right, then it's followers should have absolutely no fear of people questioning it.

I don't see anything negative about requiring evidence to believe something to be true. That is my only requirement for me to believe in a deity: good, solid evidence. The possibility of the existence of a deity goes in the same boat as the possibility for the existence of fairies, leprechauns, the sphinx, and other supernatural beings that man has claimed to exist throughout time. If it has no hard evidence, then I don't worry about it, just as I don't worry about the existence of any other supernatural beings/objects. I don't need to believe in a deity to give meaning to my life. In fact, I find it quite depressing that people actually feel that life has no meaning without the existence of a deity.

I can't disprove the existence of a deity, just like I can't disprove the existence of fairies or any other supernatural being. It doesn't mean that it gets the same credibility as science, which requires evidence. If I said that I possessed a box that had fairies that have helped me, but they are invisible and therefore can't be seen by anybody, nobody could disprove me. However, I'd be put in a nut house for making such claims. Yet, believing in some omnipotent, invisible man in the sky for which there is no hard evidence at all is completely logical? I don't get it.

I don't mean to come across as mean. I'm more than happy to answer questions by open-minded people who are questioning their belief in something, but when people come here to ask questions when they already have their mind made up on what they believe is annoying. I was, at one time, one of those people looking for answers, and I seriously hoped that I would get answers that showed my religious beliefs to be true, but it didn't work out that way. That is why I became an atheist. As far as I'm concerned, people can believe whatever the hell they want, so long as they don't try to force their beliefs on others. I'm gladly willing to change my beliefs when solid evidence is shown to me that proves me wrong.

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain
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