The go a little easy on theists thread
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03-02-2014, 01:56 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 01:02 AM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 12:58 AM)Drich Wrote:  Since I'm new here let me see if I can ease into the pool...

If your looking for the plausibility of God, then why are you asking us when God Himself offers it to anyone who Asks Seeks and Knocks (a/s/k) as outlined in luke 11.

What better proof of God then God Himself?

Oh, that's what A/S/K means. I was wondering about that.

How is one supposed to go about "asking, seeking, and knocking?" Do I ask the clerk at the cashier? Do I look under the couch amongst the dust bunnies? Do I knock on the door of the local orphanage? Consider

Let's look at luke 11: 5-13
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=ERV
We are asking of the Holy Spirit.
We ask in prayer, we seek in the bible, church, and asking questions in places like this, we knock by repeating this process without end (as outlined in the passage) till God gives us what we have been asking and seek for.
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03-02-2014, 02:11 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 01:56 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(03-02-2014 01:02 AM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  Oh, that's what A/S/K means. I was wondering about that.

How is one supposed to go about "asking, seeking, and knocking?" Do I ask the clerk at the cashier? Do I look under the couch amongst the dust bunnies? Do I knock on the door of the local orphanage? Consider

Let's look at luke 11: 5-13
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...ersion=ERV
We are asking of the Holy Spirit.
We ask in prayer, we seek in the bible, church, and asking questions in places like this, we knock by repeating this process without end (as outlined in the passage) till God gives us what we have been asking and seek for.


Easy To Read Version? Dodgy

Luke 11:5-13 NASB

5 Then He said to them, “Suppose one of you has a friend, and goes to him at midnight and says to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves;
6 for a friend of mine has come to me from a journey, and I have nothing to set before him’;
7 and from inside he answers and says, ‘Do not bother me; the door has already been shut and my children and I are in bed; I cannot get up and give you anything.’
8 I tell you, even though he will not get up and give him anything because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will get up and give him as much as he needs.

9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
10 For everyone who asks, receives; and he who seeks, finds; and to him who knocks, it will be opened.
11 Now suppose one of you fathers is asked by his son for a fish; he will not give him a snake instead of a fish, will he?
12 Or if he is asked for an egg, he will not give him a scorpion, will he?
13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”



Seems like they would have saved a lot of paper by just printing...

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03-02-2014, 02:18 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
We can go to the Greek if you like. But I have found that when speaking to the un-indoctrinated it is best to be as less pretentious and plain speaking as possible. This includes the bible you quote from.
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03-02-2014, 02:29 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 02:18 AM)Drich Wrote:  We can go to the Greek if you like. But I have found that when speaking to the un-indoctrinated it is best to be as less pretentious and plain speaking as possible. This includes the bible you quote from.

That doesn't solve the problem. There are many different versions of the Greek manuscripts (there are literally more disagreements in the manuscripts than there are actual words in the Bible) so any translation is a work of subjective interpretation, and all of them are still hearsay accounts upon hearsay.

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03-02-2014, 07:46 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
Vosur, if you think that you have put forward a unique or novel thought, then you are more arrogant than I thought.

Yow know absolutely nothing about me. I have changed my religious beliefs significantly and on a few occasions. I grew up a Christian and now consider myself a deist (a term that I have only learned and started using to describe myself in the past month). I can also think of at least one longstanding moral belief that I have changed in the last week or two. When was the last time you actually changed any of your core beliefs?

The problem is that you are arrogant and a hypocrite. Do you honestly think that you have shown the "intellectual integrity that is necessary to have a change of mind"? You seem more interested in patting yourself on the back and slinging insults than having a rational discussion. Meanwhile, you have nothing to pat yourself on the back for. Like I said, I have changed my mind a lot, even over recent history, you just seem to lack the intellectual ability to convince me that your opinion in correct. Or, perhaps, it is because you lack the intellectual integrity to open your mind to the possibility that you are wrong; therefore, holding on to false beliefs and handicapping your ability to convince anyone aside from the choir on here that you are right.

As for responding to the posts on the page, I would take a day away from one of those threads and have it explode with 5 pages of messages. The vast majority of them were specifically aimed at me. I am a busy guy and I do not have the time, or frankly the desire, to go through and respond to every message targeted at me on this page. If I missed one that you think I should have responded to, then too bad. Most of the comments on those pages seem to have been repeated multiple times, so I'm sure I responded to the gist of them eventually.

(02-02-2014 09:11 PM)Vosur Wrote:  No, that is not at all what I said; it's a textbook example of the 'straw man fallacy'. My actual argument is the following:

P1: All atoms have always existed.
P2: The Mona Lisa is made up entirely of atoms.
C1: Therefore, the atoms that make up the Mona Lisa have always existed.

Wow, I apologize for straw-manning your argument. Your re-formulated circular argument has certainly set me straight, lol.

(02-02-2014 09:56 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Amen, brother! All these atheists refuse to believe in God so they can continue to live their immoral lives sinning as much as they want. None of them have ever looked at all the facts with an open mind; they are blind to the truth of the almighty Lord!

You roll your eyes, but I did come on here looking for answers. I have moved away from Christianity and really was interested in the atheist point of view. Since I got here, all I see is a bunch of closed-mindedness and people who are blinded by their personal prejudices (whether it be arrogance, anger at organized religion, etc).
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03-02-2014, 08:31 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 07:46 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Vosur, if you think that you have put forward a unique or novel thought, then you are more arrogant than I thought.

Yow know absolutely nothing about me. I have changed my religious beliefs significantly and on a few occasions. I grew up a Christian and now consider myself a deist (a term that I have only learned and started using to describe myself in the past month). I can also think of at least one longstanding moral belief that I have changed in the last week or two. When was the last time you actually changed any of your core beliefs?

The problem is that you are arrogant and a hypocrite. Do you honestly think that you have shown the "intellectual integrity that is necessary to have a change of mind"? You seem more interested in patting yourself on the back and slinging insults than having a rational discussion. Meanwhile, you have nothing to pat yourself on the back for. Like I said, I have changed my mind a lot, even over recent history, you just seem to lack the intellectual ability to convince me that your opinion in correct. Or, perhaps, it is because you lack the intellectual integrity to open your mind to the possibility that you are wrong; therefore, holding on to false beliefs and handicapping your ability to convince anyone aside from the choir on here that you are right.

As for responding to the posts on the page, I would take a day away from one of those threads and have it explode with 5 pages of messages. The vast majority of them were specifically aimed at me. I am a busy guy and I do not have the time, or frankly the desire, to go through and respond to every message targeted at me on this page. If I missed one that you think I should have responded to, then too bad. Most of the comments on those pages seem to have been repeated multiple times, so I'm sure I responded to the gist of them eventually.

(02-02-2014 09:11 PM)Vosur Wrote:  No, that is not at all what I said; it's a textbook example of the 'straw man fallacy'. My actual argument is the following:

P1: All atoms have always existed.
P2: The Mona Lisa is made up entirely of atoms.
C1: Therefore, the atoms that make up the Mona Lisa have always existed.

Wow, I apologize for straw-manning your argument. Your re-formulated circular argument has certainly set me straight, lol.

(02-02-2014 09:56 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Amen, brother! All these atheists refuse to believe in God so they can continue to live their immoral lives sinning as much as they want. None of them have ever looked at all the facts with an open mind; they are blind to the truth of the almighty Lord!

You roll your eyes, but I did come on here looking for answers. I have moved away from Christianity and really was interested in the atheist point of view. Since I got here, all I see is a bunch of closed-mindedness and people who are blinded by their personal prejudices (whether it be arrogance, anger at organized religion, etc).

(02-02-2014 09:11 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I couldn't care less about your opinion.

I have to admit that I am jealous of your ability to take everything other people say about you and turning it around on them in an unthinking manner; I'm sure it requires a level of intellect and creativity that none of us atheists could ever hope to reach. We should all use this opportunity to learn a lesson from an intellectual giant like yourself, someone who is capable of throwing around big words like "hypocrite" and "circular argument" without even knowing what they mean. As the proven debating champion and shining beacon of morality that you are, you would never stoop so low as to resort to using insults, a practice you so fervently condemn when employed by people other than yourself, instead of addressing the arguments of your opponent. I have no choice but to concede that this post of yours was a straight to the point refutation of all my arguments and submit myself to your righteous judgment.

I beg for your mercy and forgiveness. Rolleyes

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03-02-2014, 08:45 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 08:31 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
I have to admit that I am jealous of your ability to take everything other people say about you and turning it around on them in an unthinking manner; I'm sure it requires a level of intellect and creativity that none of us atheists could ever hope to reach. We should all use this opportunity to learn a lesson from an intellectual giant like yourself, someone who is capable of throwing around big words like "hypocrite" and "circular argument" without even knowing what they mean. As the proven debating champion and shining beacon of morality that you are, you would never stoop so low as to resort to using insults, a practice you so fervently condemn when employed by people other than yourself, instead of addressing the arguments of your opponent. I have no choice but to concede that this post of yours was a straight to the point refutation of all my arguments and submit myself to your righteous judgment.

I beg for your mercy and forgiveness. Rolleyes

You know, Vosur, I respect your posts quite a bit. You and I have had several discussions in the past, and I know you're a good guy. But from an outside perspective having kept tabs on this thread and read every page... his responses come off as him being interested in discussion and you keep using every intellectually barbed response you can to be an asshole to him. It wins no one over and honestly does come off as you being a giant asshole.

That's just my opinion here... but it makes me want to read your posts less and less. You're starting to sound like an angry muffy with barbed responses... just less profanity. You're very quick to point out fallacies and faulty debating to other people, I'd like to point out that you're resorting to more ad hominems than suits your argument, making it difficult to read without a cringe, and difficult to take seriously.

I first joined this forum for intellectual conversation and debate. I find lately that more often than not, threads are ending up with page after page of personal attacks when someone decides they don't agree with someone. It's anything but intellectual, anything but mentally stimulating and serves the community no purpose.

For these very reasons, I come here less and less.

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03-02-2014, 08:47 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 12:58 AM)Drich Wrote:  
(06-04-2013 08:55 AM)Abdul Alhazred Wrote:  I assume there are some theists here?

Even the most hard headed rationalists among us get through the day without always demanding absolute proof of everything. Right?

Challenge to theists: Never mind absolute proof, give us some reason to suppose that the existence of God might be a plausible inference.

Warning: "Things we don't know" is not a reason to believe made up shit, so don't try and pull that one.

Any takers?

Since I'm new here let me see if I can ease into the pool...

If your looking for the plausibility of God, then why are you asking us when God Himself offers it to anyone who Asks Seeks and Knocks (a/s/k) as outlined in luke 11.

What better proof of God then God Himself?

...and the Troll's March on TA continues. HoboHoboHobo

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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03-02-2014, 08:50 AM
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 07:46 AM)lookingforanswers Wrote:  Vosur, if you think that you have put forward a unique or novel thought, then you are more arrogant than I thought.

Yow know absolutely nothing about me. I have changed my religious beliefs significantly and on a few occasions. I grew up a Christian and now consider myself a deist (a term that I have only learned and started using to describe myself in the past month). I can also think of at least one longstanding moral belief that I have changed in the last week or two. When was the last time you actually changed any of your core beliefs?

The problem is that you are arrogant and a hypocrite. Do you honestly think that you have shown the "intellectual integrity that is necessary to have a change of mind"? You seem more interested in patting yourself on the back and slinging insults than having a rational discussion. Meanwhile, you have nothing to pat yourself on the back for. Like I said, I have changed my mind a lot, even over recent history, you just seem to lack the intellectual ability to convince me that your opinion in correct. Or, perhaps, it is because you lack the intellectual integrity to open your mind to the possibility that you are wrong; therefore, holding on to false beliefs and handicapping your ability to convince anyone aside from the choir on here that you are right.

As for responding to the posts on the page, I would take a day away from one of those threads and have it explode with 5 pages of messages. The vast majority of them were specifically aimed at me. I am a busy guy and I do not have the time, or frankly the desire, to go through and respond to every message targeted at me on this page. If I missed one that you think I should have responded to, then too bad. Most of the comments on those pages seem to have been repeated multiple times, so I'm sure I responded to the gist of them eventually.

(02-02-2014 09:11 PM)Vosur Wrote:  No, that is not at all what I said; it's a textbook example of the 'straw man fallacy'. My actual argument is the following:

P1: All atoms have always existed.
P2: The Mona Lisa is made up entirely of atoms.
C1: Therefore, the atoms that make up the Mona Lisa have always existed.

Wow, I apologize for straw-manning your argument. Your re-formulated circular argument has certainly set me straight, lol.

(02-02-2014 09:56 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Amen, brother! All these atheists refuse to believe in God so they can continue to live their immoral lives sinning as much as they want. None of them have ever looked at all the facts with an open mind; they are blind to the truth of the almighty Lord!

You roll your eyes, but I did come on here looking for answers. I have moved away from Christianity and really was interested in the atheist point of view. Since I got here, all I see is a bunch of closed-mindedness and people who are blinded by their personal prejudices (whether it be arrogance, anger at organized religion, etc).

Yes, we should be more open-minded and loving like those Christians that write all that hate mail to people like Richard Dawkins. The things that drove me away from religion were the hatred and arrogance that so many Christians have for people who don't share their beliefs, and the fact that they could offer not one shred of evidence. All they did was regurgitate the same old garbage they had been indoctrinated to believe. You're not fooling anyone by trying to pose as someone that is actually looking for answers. You're just a creationist thinking you're witty by pretending to be somebody who is actually questioning their religion. When I looked for answers, atheists were the only ones that gave them to me. Creationists just spewed out the same crap they always do, never offering any real evidence for any of their claims.

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03-02-2014, 08:51 AM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2014 08:56 AM by Taqiyya Mockingbird.)
RE: The go a little easy on theists thread
(03-02-2014 01:56 AM)Drich Wrote:  Let's look at luke 11: 5-13

Might as well look at The Story of Little Red Riding Hood. Rolleyes



(03-02-2014 02:18 AM)Drich Wrote:  We can go to the Greek if you like. But I have found that when speaking to the un-BRAINWASHED...

fixed that for ya.

Quote:... it is best to be as less pretentious and plain speaking as possible. This includes the bible you quote from.

HoboLaughat

pre·ten·tious
adjective \pri-ˈten(t)-shəs\

: having or showing the unpleasant quality of people who want to be regarded as more impressive, successful, or important than they really are


Pretty much sums you up.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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