The god argument.
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04-01-2012, 03:02 PM
RE: The god argument.
HOC hits the nail on the head yet again.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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04-01-2012, 04:29 PM
RE: The god argument.
(04-01-2012 10:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  Just saying that string theory is not very well fleshed-out...

True, it's got a ways to go... but string theory can comfortably incorporate super-symmetry and Higgs-Boson is not out of place within any of the current equation explanations.
Undecided

It's that eleven dimensional stuff, isn't it? Dodgy
Why does that leave people so cold? What's 6 or 7 more dimensions when we've already got a pretty good handle on 4 or 5? We just need to tend to some of the finer details at Cern.. and the new proposed Project X at Fermi looks to be pretty exciting.

I suppose it's going to be a while, though. If I could figure it out, I promise... I would have you guys come over and play in all eleven dimensions. Shy

Even Ego R can play in all the dimensions and maybe already does... wether he thinks so or not. Wink

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04-01-2012, 04:43 PM
RE: The god argument.
(04-01-2012 02:20 PM)Malleus Wrote:  
(04-01-2012 01:20 PM)Egor Wrote:  And this is the one fact I know about atheists: They want to be atheists.

You don't know shit. I tried my absolute best to prevent becoming an atheist because I was scared shitless of what I thought the word means. I prayed my ass off for some answers to my questions, for a sign, for someone to just say the right things that would make sense to me, for anything. I didn't get shit.

Nobody made me an atheist. I had no idea who Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, and all the others were. My own religion (which, btw, is the same as yours) made me an atheist against my will. I thought I was the only one on this planet who has too many questions in his head and I only ran into idiots like you who didn't and continue not to have any bit of good answers to make my questions go away.

I had been an atheist for quite some time before I even realized that I fit the definition and I'm not alone. By that time I only accepted that, as much as I loathed the word "atheist", that's what I am

I know that , according to your own opinion, you know everything, but I will have to politely ask you to fuck off and stop talking out of your ass. You're insensitive, ignorant, deluded, full of a very non-christian hate and pretty much stupid. You are a disgrace to your own god and to the human race. Look at yourself in a mirror and think really hard if a just and loving god would want anything to do with someone like you.

Malleus, I'm not sure you were direct enough. Cool

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-01-2012, 07:13 PM
RE: The god argument.
Christians don't want to be Christians, right? They must be coerced with fear of eternal damnation so that they can believe in a lie. That choice is definitely much better then a person freely thinking for themselves and choosing to believe in scientific fact.

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

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04-01-2012, 07:51 PM
RE: The god argument.
(04-01-2012 04:29 PM)kim Wrote:  
(04-01-2012 10:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  Just saying that string theory is not very well fleshed-out...

True, it's got a ways to go... but string theory can comfortably incorporate super-symmetry and Higgs-Boson is not out of place within any of the current equation explanations.
Undecided

It's that eleven dimensional stuff, isn't it? Dodgy

Uh, no... It's the 10^-33m stuff. It's the dimensionality beyond local causality stuff - which seriously hints the mathematics are spinning a web, rather than crossing a chasm. It's the forty years later and a new version every year stuff...

And it's the - it used to be a TOE and now it's an appendix - stuff...

But... I love you! Heart

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04-01-2012, 08:42 PM
RE: The god argument.
(04-01-2012 02:20 PM)Malleus Wrote:  
(04-01-2012 01:20 PM)Egor Wrote:  And this is the one fact I know about atheists: They want to be atheists.

You don't know shit. I tried my absolute best to prevent becoming an atheist because I was scared shitless of what I thought the word means. I prayed my ass off for some answers to my questions, for a sign, for someone to just say the right things that would make sense to me, for anything. I didn't get shit.

Nobody made me an atheist. I had no idea who Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, and all the others were. My own religion (which, btw, is the same as yours) made me an atheist against my will. I thought I was the only one on this planet who has too many questions in his head and I only ran into idiots like you who didn't and continue not to have any bit of good answers to make my questions go away.

I had been an atheist for quite some time before I even realized that I fit the definition and I'm not alone. By that time I only accepted that, as much as I loathed the word "atheist", that's what I am

I know that , according to your own opinion, you know everything, but I will have to politely ask you to fuck off and stop talking out of your ass. You're insensitive, ignorant, deluded, full of a very non-christian hate and pretty much stupid. You are a disgrace to your own god and to the human race. Look at yourself in a mirror and think really hard if a just and loving god would want anything to do with someone like you.

Malleus - have you read Jesse Smith's paper "becoming an atheist"?

http://www.atheistresearch.org/documents...merica.pdf

Fantastic read.

I went through a very similar conversion process myself.

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04-01-2012, 10:58 PM
RE: The god argument.
(04-01-2012 07:13 PM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  Christians don't want to be Christians, right? They must be coerced with fear of eternal damnation so that they can believe in a lie. That choice is definitely much better then a person freely thinking for themselves and choosing to believe in scientific fact.

Good point. Let me expand. There is a big difference between negative and positive freedom. Negative freedom is what you are allowed to do. Positive freedom is making you free to choose when you do not want to decide for yourself. Christians and other religious types fear positive freedom. They want to be told the boundries. The idea of a random universe where we are free to choose our own moral code is hell on earth for them. They even make the claim that without god we would have no morals proving that they wouldn't know where to start. (See William Lane Craig's argument on Objective Moral Values). I'm excited about this phase of human social development. We have it in our control to choose the future of our species. We just need to convince more people that positive freedom is the right choice and simply the only choice if we are to move forward.

Directly to the Christians on this thread. Let it go. Join us. The debate is over. You're like the guy with the car bumper sticker of the political candidate who lost the election a year ago. Take it off the car. Now let's move on together and build a better future for humanity.
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05-01-2012, 12:27 AM
 
RE: The god argument.
(04-01-2012 02:20 PM)Malleus Wrote:  You don't know shit. I tried my absolute best to prevent becoming an atheist because I was scared shitless of what I thought the word means. I prayed my ass off for some answers to my questions, for a sign, for someone to just say the right things that would make sense to me, for anything. I didn't get shit.

Maybe you were supposed to find the answers instead of externalizing your responsibility for your faith.

Quote:Nobody made me an atheist. I had no idea who Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris, Dennett, and all the others were. My own religion (which, btw, is the same as yours) made me an atheist against my will.

You’re pathetic. And you’re a liar. You wanted to get away from religion. You have some deviancy you want to live out. Or maybe you’re just so narcissistic that there isn’t room for you and God in the same universe. No one said you had to remain a Lutheran—if that’s what you’re saying you are. You could have switched religions; hell, you could have gone New Age or anything else. Instead you decided it would be easier if there were no God to get in your way.

Quote:I thought I was the only one on this planet who has too many questions in his head and I only ran into idiots like you who didn't and continue not to have any bit of good answers to make my questions go away.

It won’t work, you know, on judgment day: blaming others. You could have started your own religion if you wanted to. If no one had the answers, you could have found them. Instead you rejected Christ. This life is meant for spiritual growth, not spiritual dependency. You might fool others, but you’re not fooling me. I know your heart. I can read it right here in the lines of your text.

Quote:I had been an atheist for quite some time before I even realized that I fit the definition and I'm not alone. By that time I only accepted that, as much as I loathed the word "atheist", that's what I am

You should loathe the word, and your self-loathing may be the only chance you have left. You may finally decide that you are, in fact, a sinner and need God to forgive you. But I’m engaging in wishful thinking now, because what happens with self-loathing is more often than not an onset of irreversible narcissism.

Quote:I know that , according to your own opinion, you know everything, but I will have to politely ask you to fuck off and stop talking out of your ass. You're insensitive, ignorant, deluded, full of a very non-christian hate and pretty much stupid. You are a disgrace to your own god and to the human race. Look at yourself in a mirror and think really hard if a just and loving god would want anything to do with someone like you.

Oh, you’re an atheist but you judge me according to Christian principles as if they were the measure of righteous action and fair play. So, not an atheist after all. Just a rebellious creation that in the end God will have no use for. You only have so much time, you know? Just like all of us. If you enter eternity an atheist, you get hell.

And so what if you hate my guts. You hate God, too. So much for your opinion.
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05-01-2012, 01:48 AM
RE: The god argument.
(04-01-2012 10:58 PM)Thomas Wrote:  
(04-01-2012 07:13 PM)ShirubaDangan Wrote:  Christians don't want to be Christians, right? They must be coerced with fear of eternal damnation so that they can believe in a lie. That choice is definitely much better then a person freely thinking for themselves and choosing to believe in scientific fact.

Good point. Let me expand. There is a big difference between negative and positive freedom. Negative freedom is what you are allowed to do. Positive freedom is making you free to choose when you do not want to decide for yourself. Christians and other religious types fear positive freedom. They want to be told the boundries. The idea of a random universe where we are free to choose our own moral code is hell on earth for them. They even make the claim that without god we would have no morals proving that they wouldn't know where to start. (See William Lane Craig's argument on Objective Moral Values). I'm excited about this phase of human social development. We have it in our control to choose the future of our species. We just need to convince more people that positive freedom is the right choice and simply the only choice if we are to move forward.

Directly to the Christians on this thread. Let it go. Join us. The debate is over. You're like the guy with the car bumper sticker of the political candidate who lost the election a year ago. Take it off the car. Now let's move on together and build a better future for humanity.

I couldn't have said it any better.

Now you say the universe has design? If it were designed, why is it so catastrophic? Galaxies are colliding against eachother, blackholes are eradicating whole systems(Maybe its God's eraser? He probably realized he made a mistake.)

I couldn't stop laughing when you said the sky was blue. You obviously haven't seen a sunset.

We do know that the universe did come from one single point and is expanding from that one point. For what happened before the big bang we do not know. Science will openly admit that, but it will continue to search for answers. Unlike religion, which won't budge even when its facts are blatantly wrong. Thats its greatest flaw and what will lead to its downfall.

If God makes things so perfect. Why have 99 percent of all animals gone extinct on this planet? Obviously they weren't perfect. You could argue because of the change on this planet and say God made room for us. But why destroy everything multiple times if you were perfect and made perfect things? Things evolve but things also get wiped out in the process. Its what will happen and will continue so.

I find it funny you think personal experiences can count as fact. People also truly believed they have been on the moon or have been abducted by aliens. Obviously this is fact.

As I said before, people can choose to be Atheists. Unfortunately for others, they are forced to be Theists.

"Mankind must put an end to war, or war will put an end to mankind." -John F Kennedy

The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” -Benjamin Franklin

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05-01-2012, 05:59 AM
RE: The god argument.
(05-01-2012 12:27 AM)Egor Wrote:  I know your heart. I can read it right here in the lines of your text.

Egor is Jesus! I see the light!

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