The gods and super natural evidence thread
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02-06-2014, 03:20 PM
RE: The gods and super natural evidence thread
This may well be faked footage (I'm no expert), but this is still more evidence than any Christian has ever come up with.




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02-06-2014, 05:21 PM
RE: The gods and super natural evidence thread
*supernatural

(one word)

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-06-2014, 05:27 PM
RE: The gods and super natural evidence thread
You're asking for evidence for that which does not leave evidence, as per its definition.
This is gonna take a while...

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02-06-2014, 06:03 PM
RE: The gods and super natural evidence thread
(02-06-2014 05:27 PM)One Above All Wrote:  You're asking for evidence for that which does not leave evidence, as per its definition.
This is gonna take a while...

Only if you define it that way; and definition is all you've got without evidence. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-06-2014, 06:14 PM
RE: The gods and super natural evidence thread
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02-06-2014, 09:24 PM
RE: The gods and super natural evidence thread
(02-06-2014 05:27 PM)One Above All Wrote:  You're asking for evidence for that which does not leave evidence, as per its definition.
This is gonna take a while...

I reject that in its entirety, from you (I suspect you were being sarcastic) as well as from people who really believe that.

The premise is that I will suffer ETERNALLY for flaws that I was given, flaws that are not my fault, with NO WAY that I can change my destiny (I cannot make my brain believe something that is clearly just a bunch of mythological B.S.), that all of this was known by the omniscient creator who made me and made this no-way-to-win scenario that MUST end in my eternal suffering - he KNOWS it and he KNEW it before he created me to suffer.

And this being is omnipotent, so he could know and do exactly what was needed to give me a real choice, real free will - enough evidence, enough plausibility, with no requirement of gullibility, that I could be faced with a real plausible decision and my eternal fate would be up to me rather than out of my control. He could omnipotently do this without error, without flaw, and give me a real chance to influence my eternal fate.

But he chooses to leave no evidence? He could absolutely leave the perfect amount of evidence but yet he chooses to leave NONE.

And I will be judged by this sadistic creator and condemned to eternal suffering, and he KNEW IT ALL ALONG.

To me this is too much of a logical contradiction to be plausible. Even a sick and twisted psychopath would be more creative and more believable than this.

No, the "can't/won't leave evidence" is just an excuse for the religiously narrow minded who don't want to look around and realize the complete, utter lack of ANY reason to believe in their sky-daddy-boogeyman, so they make logically implausible and indefensible platitudes to excuse themselves from needing a reason to believe.

Because THEY KNOW that when they start looking for reasons to believe, they won't find any, and then they'll have to face the reality that they all know is there but they're all too terrified to face it. (At least, all the people who resort to this ridiculous defense - it's a last gasp defense to save themselves from terrifying reality).

And I won't let them validate their head-in-the-sand refusal to face reality by pawning it off on me; by accepting or even ignoring their weasel-excuse, I give it more life than it deserves.

I won't do that.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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03-06-2014, 03:09 AM
RE: The gods and super natural evidence thread
(02-06-2014 06:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 05:27 PM)One Above All Wrote:  You're asking for evidence for that which does not leave evidence, as per its definition.
This is gonna take a while...

Only if you define it that way; and definition is all you've got without evidence. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

Any other definition and the theistic worldview crumbles. Like Aseptic Skeptic said, theists know that, if they look for evidence, they won't find it, so they had to define the supernatural as not leaving any evidence.

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03-06-2014, 09:22 AM
RE: The gods and super natural evidence thread
(03-06-2014 03:09 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 06:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only if you define it that way; and definition is all you've got without evidence. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

Any other definition and the theistic worldview crumbles. Like Aseptic Skeptic said, theists know that, if they look for evidence, they won't find it, so they had to define the supernatural as not leaving any evidence.

But that doesn't work either. If it doesn't leave evidence, that says it doesn't interact.

How is that different from being non-existent?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
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03-06-2014, 09:40 AM
The gods and super natural evidence thread
(03-06-2014 03:09 AM)One Above All Wrote:  
(02-06-2014 06:03 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only if you define it that way; and definition is all you've got without evidence. So, there's that. Drinking Beverage

Any other definition and the theistic worldview crumbles. Like Aseptic Skeptic said, theists know that, if they look for evidence, they won't find it, so they had to define the supernatural as not leaving any evidence.

As mentioned in another thread, the dominant Christian view that God is Transcendent is a direct response to the rise in science in the 1900s. Before that, God was described predominantly as Immanent.

β€œIt is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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03-06-2014, 12:12 PM
RE: The gods and super natural evidence thread
(03-06-2014 09:22 AM)Chas Wrote:  But that doesn't work either. If it doesn't leave evidence, that says it doesn't interact.

How is that different from being non-existent?

You're basing your view on what you observe in the natural world. The supernatural, by etymological definition, can break the laws of the natural. In other words, it can interact without leaving evidence. "How?", you may ask? Why... magic, of course! Thumbsup Tongue Angel
At least that (the last part) is what it looks like to everyone who doesn't buy this bullshit. To those who believe in the supernatural, it's 100% logical and rational.

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