The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
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14-10-2015, 10:18 AM
RE: The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
Needs in the military are quite different, naturally. A 300 meter hit that causes a mortal wound but is not immediately debilitating is acceptable. In close quarters, it's all about stopping the threat fast. A mortally wounded attacker is just as potentially deadly.

I don't know if you all saw the video yesterday that went viral in the gun community of the guy in Israel running over the rabbi and then proceeding to grab a blade and hack a few people before being stopped by a nearby security guard armed with a handgun, but it looked to me like he was using fmj. And that guy, despite being shot multiple times in successive attempts to get up again, was just not going down for the count.

The same thing can happen with hp, to be sure, but assuming penetration, it's more likely to drop them.

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14-10-2015, 10:23 AM
RE: The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
(14-10-2015 10:10 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 09:46 AM)itsnotmeitsyou Wrote:  The 115gr 9mm penetrate to 11.25". They do recoil a bit more than a standard round, though. Is that why you carry the lite ammo?

Yes.

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My Ruger has a pretty heavy spring for such a small gun, and it doesn't handle light loads well at all. I'll probably end up getting a lighter spring, but I haven't done much in terms of modification of handguns.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

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14-10-2015, 10:33 AM
RE: The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
(14-10-2015 10:18 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Needs in the military are quite different, naturally. A 300 meter hit that causes a mortal wound but is not immediately debilitating is acceptable. In close quarters, it's all about stopping the threat fast. A mortally wounded attacker is just as potentially deadly.

I don't know if you all saw the video yesterday that went viral in the gun community of the guy in Israel running over the rabbi and then proceeding to grab a blade and hack a few people before being stopped by a nearby security guard armed with a handgun, but it looked to me like he was using fmj. And that guy, despite being shot multiple times in successive attempts to get up again, was just not going down for the count.

The same thing can happen with hp, to be sure, but assuming penetration, it's more likely to drop them.

That's why I carry HP. I was trained that the end goal of self defense is to end the threat. A HP round transfers much more of the energy into the target over a larger area, hence the lower penetration. I knew a guy who was shot and killed by the police. He was high as fuck on something, and even after 4 shots to the chest, he didn't even slow down as he was charging the cops. They had to get a head shot to put him down. Autopsy showed that there simply wasn't enough catastrophic internal damage to his chest. The rounds just went straight through him and missed all his vitals. HP rounds would make that a near impossibility.

I love using 50 cent as an example. Dude got shot several times in the torso with 9mm and lived to tell about it because he was easily patched up. Not gonna happen with jagged, torn wound tracks. If he'd have been shot with HP, no one would have ever known who Curtis Jackson is.

Excuse me, I'm making perfect sense. You're just not keeping up.

"Let me give you some advice, bastard: never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you." - Tyrion Lannister
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14-10-2015, 11:23 AM
RE: The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
(14-10-2015 10:18 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Needs in the military are quite different, naturally. A 300 meter hit that causes a mortal wound but is not immediately debilitating is acceptable. In close quarters, it's all about stopping the threat fast. A mortally wounded attacker is just as potentially deadly.

I don't know if you all saw the video yesterday that went viral in the gun community of the guy in Israel running over the rabbi and then proceeding to grab a blade and hack a few people before being stopped by a nearby security guard armed with a handgun, but it looked to me like he was using fmj. And that guy, despite being shot multiple times in successive attempts to get up again, was just not going down for the count.

The same thing can happen with hp, to be sure, but assuming penetration, it's more likely to drop them.

The Hague Convention of 1899 (declaration III) prohibited the military use of bullets that flatten or expand in the body. (lead, hollow point, or cross point). So that's why military now use FMJ bullets. (additionally to prevent barrel leading or gas system blockage.)

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14-10-2015, 11:46 AM
RE: The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
Here's a link to the video + analyses I mentioned.
Armed Guard Stops Rampaging Terrorist

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14-10-2015, 11:55 AM
RE: The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
(14-10-2015 11:23 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  (additionally to prevent barrel leading or gas system blockage.)

My personal solution to leading from supersonic rounds is gas checked bullets. I load .459 diameter 420 grain hard casts to about 1850 fps out of my guide gun. Leading hasn't been a problem. It's a lever gun though so no gas port to pick up a chunk of hot lead on the way by...

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14-10-2015, 11:59 AM
RE: The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
Is anyone familiar with the gun laws in Maine? One of the areas I am considering moving to once I move back to MA and get myself settled is Portland, Maine. I love it there.

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14-10-2015, 12:03 PM
RE: The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
(14-10-2015 11:59 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Is anyone familiar with the gun laws in Maine? One of the areas I am considering moving to once I move back to MA and get myself settled is Portland, Maine. I love it there.

A million times better than California or Massachusetts Tongue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Maine

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14-10-2015, 12:08 PM
RE: The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
(14-10-2015 11:59 AM)jennybee Wrote:  Is anyone familiar with the gun laws in Maine? One of the areas I am considering moving to once I move back to MA and get myself settled is Portland, Maine. I love it there.

They required a permit for concealed carry, and don't recognize permits from many other states. Pretty firearms friendly otherwise.

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14-10-2015, 12:19 PM
The gun thread. Enthusiasts only.
(14-10-2015 11:23 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The Hague Convention of 1899 (declaration III) prohibited the military use of bullets that flatten or expand in the body. (lead, hollow point, or cross point). So that's why military now use FMJ bullets. (additionally to prevent barrel leading or gas system blockage.)

The military also uses OTM (open tip meplat). The Sierra Match King is the bullet of choice for them. It is basically a hollow point that has the tip swaged down very small. They often perform like a hollow point but with inconsistencies. However, if you shave the tip down a little bit they do rather well.

Here is a picture of one on the left compared to a hollow point hunting bullet on the right.
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