The hidden attack on whiteness
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11-10-2014, 03:58 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(11-10-2014 03:52 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 03:20 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Obviously the examples of institutionalised racism against white people are fake, but as a white, cis, hetero male I cannot be expected to know that right away so let me go home and check my privilege.

dafuq is 'cis'?

It's a word that lets you know you are dealing with ignorant people that think the depths of the internet are the same as the real world.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-10-2014, 04:13 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(11-10-2014 03:58 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 03:52 PM)Anjele Wrote:  dafuq is 'cis'?

It's a word that lets you know you are dealing with ignorant people that think the depths of the internet are the same as the real world.

If you don't want people to pull out related words for ironic use it pays to avoid telling people to check their privilege.

So are you going to respond to Spade or just ignore it out of convenience?
At least give him a nod and tell him if you think he made a good point. Maybe even admit that it was warranted that people couldn't be bothered to present you with any non-American examples since you're firmly grounded in that single isolated country? Or maybe as a white person he is simply ignorant and doesn't know about real issues?

(11-10-2014 03:49 PM)Spade=Spade Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 02:38 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Both of you cry me a river. When the cops bust into your house pepperspray you and arrest you because of the color of your skin maybe then you will know what actual racism looks like.


This... This comment right here is exactly the problem. You have just summed up the OP in one emotionally-charged rant.

Not only does your comment make the ridiculous sweeping assumption that only non-white people are victims of police brutality, but it misses the point entirely. I want to eradicate racism against blacks as much as you do, but when the discussion moves to racism against whites, you inexplicably shout "cry me a river" and dismiss the issue entirely... This is precisely the problem. This is the unique burden that only whiteness seems to have to deal with.... All forms of racism are bad and we should be united in trying to eradicate all racism on our planet everywhere... Sadly, racism against whiteness seems to be immune to criticism because people like you get emotional and dismiss it immediately.

And for your information, in my part of the world, white people are the minority and I have on numerous occasions had police officers discriminate violently against me and other white people because of the colour of our skin. I've even been told by police officers that they are going to exterminate white piggies if we don't go back to Europe. The world is a bigger place than just America. Educate yourself.

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11-10-2014, 04:21 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(11-10-2014 03:49 PM)Spade=Spade Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 02:38 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Both of you cry me a river. When the cops bust into your house pepperspray you and arrest you because of the color of your skin maybe then you will know what actual racism looks like.


This... This comment right here is exactly the problem. You have just summed up the OP in one emotionally-charged rant.

Not only does your comment make the ridiculous sweeping assumption that only non-white people are victims of police brutality, but it misses the point entirely. I want to eradicate racism against blacks as much as you do, but when the discussion moves to racism against whites, you inexplicably shout "cry me a river" and dismiss the issue entirely... This is precisely the problem. This is the unique burden that only whiteness seems to have to deal with.... All forms of racism are bad and we should be united in trying to eradicate all racism on our planet everywhere... Sadly, racism against whiteness seems to be immune to criticism because people like you get emotional and dismiss it immediately.

And for your information, in my part of the world, white people are the minority and I have on numerous occasions had police officers discriminate violently against me and other white people because of the colour of our skin. I've even been told by police officers that they are going to exterminate white piggies if we don't go back to Europe. The world is a bigger place than just America. Educate yourself.

Care to back anything up with actual facts figures or documented events?

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-10-2014, 04:26 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
Godamnit! I need an answer.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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11-10-2014, 04:32 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
I think using the term "privilege" is deliberately inflammatory (although it is the correct academic terms - in papers they use the word "privilege" to describe those who are advantaged). If you can get over your hurt feelings though, they are right. It is better to be white in the US than it is to be any other skin color. As a white man if I apply for a job, or run for office, or have a brush with the law, things are significantly more likely to go my way, even with all other factors being equal, than if I were of any other ethnic group. That is what privilege means. To deny that is the equivalent of sticking one's head under the sand and singing "lalalala lalalala" to drown own the contrary. Note: if racism were to cease to be a problem in the US, that is if it was to be true that being of a particular race had no influence on any institutional outcomes, than white privilege would cease to exist. That is all that it means. It means things are still not fair.

The OP's complaint can be summed up succinctly as "people blame whites for racism", which is an easy overgeneralization and inaccurate. The people's that control institutions in america, whether those be finacial (business), government, academic, or otherwise, are typically and statistically, overwhelmingly white males. This is a fact. To say otherwise is to ignore the obvious. When you are talking about institutional racism you are talking about racism at the hands of heads of institutions. These are white people, many of them are racist, it is a problem. If we where in India, or the middle east, or china, where racism and classism of different forms exist, it would be the same problem. Only it wouldn't be white people to blame, it would be some other majority. Try to look past your hurt feelings here. As terribly inconvenient as it is to have people remind you of racism, it is much worse to be an actual victim of racism.

"Reverse racism" does not exist. It is a nonsense term. One cannot be racists in reverse, you are either racist or you are not racists. Saying that white people, in general, have a race problem is not a form of a discrimination. The implication here seems to be that people should stop talking about race, which is silly, and unfair, because people in America (and everywhere really) are still suffering and being treated unfairly because of their race. The only way society is going to change is if people keep being loud and vocal about the inequities of race, not if they stay silent. I can think of nothing more cruel and dismissive then to see a group in need, complaining about injustice, and then telling them "its not a problem, now shut about it already". There are victims every day. It is a problem. They should not be quite about it at all, and everybody should be up in arms about it. Racism ends when people refuse to tolerate it, but first you have acknowledge that there is still a problem. I hate to break it to some of you, but there still is a problem.
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11-10-2014, 04:33 PM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2014 04:47 PM by Anjele.)
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
Fuck ya'll. I looked it up. It's a stupid word/abbreviation thing. People have too much time on their hands. Oh look that boy has always mentally, emotionally, and physically been a boy - we must have a label for that cause 'boy' and 'male' are way too confusing and clearly don't tell the whole story.

FFS Facepalm

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

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11-10-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
The argument for cis is that by calling someone trans you are grammatically distinguishing them. The implication is that trans is different, and not trans is normal. By calling people who identify with the sex they were born with "cis", it makes everyone equally labeled. I don't much care for the term. I imagine trans people probably don't much care for the term trans either. Maybe that is part of the point, idk.
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11-10-2014, 06:12 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(11-10-2014 04:21 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Care to back anything up with actual facts figures or documented events?

Oh we're into facts and figures now are we?... I must somehow present you with a report which assigns figures to something as nuanced as belief.... Hmmm I guess you'll have to do the same then to back up your assertions that black people suffer racism too because you know clearly if you don't have the figures to prove it, then racism doesnt exist. And just think about those silly Muslims who are complaining of being targeted for hate crimes as the media draws associations between them and terrorism. How silly they are to complain when they dont have a graph to prove that tensions for them are worsening.

The OP really just makes the following point: pop-culture depicts racism as white... Just like it depicts gangsterism as black and just like it depicts terrorism as Muslim.... All of these stereotypes are bad and we should all be united in trying to get rid of them. Don't smugly demand for facts and figures for one, but not the others. That does nothing but prove the problem exists.
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11-10-2014, 06:21 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(11-10-2014 06:12 PM)Spade=Spade Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 04:21 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Care to back anything up with actual facts figures or documented events?

Oh we're into facts and figures now are we?... I must somehow present you with a report which assigns figures to something as nuanced as belief.... Hmmm I guess you'll have to do the same then to back up your assertions that black people suffer racism too because you know clearly if you don't have the figures to prove it, then racism doesnt exist. And just think about those silly Muslims who are complaining of being targeted for hate crimes as the media draws associations between them and terrorism. How silly they are to complain when they dont have a graph to prove that tensions for them are worsening.

The OP really just makes the following point: pop-culture depicts racism as white... Just like it depicts gangsterism as black and just like it depicts terrorism as Muslim.... All of these stereotypes are bad and we should all be united in trying to get rid of them. Don't smugly demand for facts and figures for one, but not the others. That does nothing but prove the problem exists.

Yes I can definitively show that Black People in America are systematically discriminated against all you have done is mention a single anecdotal story of a time a black cop was lippy.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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11-10-2014, 06:31 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(11-10-2014 04:32 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  The people's that control institutions in america, whether those be finacial (business), government, academic, or otherwise, are typically and statistically, overwhelmingly white males.

Same principle applied to other groups... The people that commit terrorist attacks globally are overwhelmingly Muslims.... Are we justified in feeling contempt for all Muslims? No.

The people that practise female genital mutilation are overwhelmingly African males... Should we stereotype Africans as genital mutilators because of that? No.

The people that poach and kill tigers are overwhelmingly indian males... Should we stereotype them? No.
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