The hidden attack on whiteness
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15-10-2014, 03:31 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
I avoided this thread because I assumed it would be...exactly what it ended up being. I disagree with the OPs conclusions because they are far reaching and seem to be on an agenda to prove a point rather than be accurate.

(26-09-2014 07:47 AM)Spade=Spade Wrote:  1) Black people struggle to get jobs because of discrimination
Stereotype = white employers are racists
No, a more appropriate conclusion would be that employers in general have racial prejudices when hiring. "White" doesn't jump out at me as the culprit. All ethnicities of employers can play this game. Including Black ones discriminating against black applicants. Yes, that is a thing.

Quote:2) Black people are victims of police brutality
Stereotype = white police are racists
No. Basically the same response as above. Where is this stereotype even coming from? Your statement didn't even say "police brutality from white policeman."

Quote:3) White people don't know how lucky they are
Stereotype = white people have no skill, only luck
So far reaching that I think you are going to strain a muscle. That conclusion is so specific and ignorant of the intent of the original statement. You may not understand what it means to be statistically more likely to be raised in poverty or without access to a safe/decent education. This isn't discrediting individual accomplishments and merit. It isn't luck that drives those. But as far as opportunity and treatment. Yes there is a bit of "luck" based on your Origins.

Quote:4) White people are ignorant of other cultures
Stereotype = Only white people are ignorant of other cultures
As Tartarus said, this is the only valid point you made in your list.
Quote:5) Indian, Arab, Asian, Black & Latino people (among others) can all claim to be "people of colour"
Stereotype = White people are excluded and different.
I vaguely see your point. But you've got the origin for this backwards. People were dubbed people of color specifically because they weren't white.

On the topic itself, there is something to be said. Yes, there is racism against whites as well (and when it happens it's usually obvious, to me at least), and it is just as wrong as racism against non whites. And like all racism, it's fueled by ignorance. You just gave poor examples.

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15-10-2014, 04:10 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(15-10-2014 03:31 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  On the topic itself, there is something to be said. Yes, there is racism against whites as well (and when it happens it's usually obvious, to me at least), and it is just as wrong as racism against non whites. And like all racism, it's fueled by ignorance. You just gave poor examples.

That's a good point. There are clear examples of racism against whites (the most simple being when a black person calls a white person "honky"), but it's in no way hidden or overlooked. It's quite obvious.

When I have said that Spade hasn't given any examples, I was referring to examples that are both 1) accurate racism against whites (although technically the OP says "stereotypes") and 2) overlooked or hidden. These are what he hasn't demonstrated and what I can't think of any examples of myself.

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22-10-2014, 07:21 AM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
@Adrianime

The point of the examples was to shine a light on how stereotypes can spawn. Whether or not you buy into the stereotypes (thankfully you dont) is not the point. Many people see past the association between Terrorism and Muslims but that doesn't mean the association doesn't exist. The difference is that the Muslim/Terrorism stereotype is well-known and there are conscious efforts to curtail it from within every community.... I am of the belief that such an effort to curtail the associations between whiteness and racism does not really exist yet.


@Impulse

What I have argued for is:

1) White stereotypes exist (in our culture).
2) They are generally overlooked relative to other stereotypes which also exist.

What I have NOT argued for is:

1) People are racist against whites.
2) This behaviour is overlooked.

By arguing that some people call white people "honky", you have demonstrated that (despite my best efforts) you do not understand my OP. My point is that there are components to our CULTURE which negatively affect the public perception of whiteness - just like there are components to our culture which negatively affect the public perception of nearly all other groups - the difference is (I believe) that the acknowledgement that whiteness is just as vulnerable to negative public perception as any other group does not yet exist.
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22-10-2014, 07:56 AM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
Quote:My point is that there are components to our CULTURE which negatively affect the public perception of whiteness

Nobody gives a shit.
I'm white and I don't give a shit.

The fact is that it is far easier being white than it is being a social minority. If anything a little white negativity will do the world a bit of good for heading in a direction of cultural acceptance.

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22-10-2014, 08:41 AM (This post was last modified: 22-10-2014 08:48 AM by Spade=Spade.)
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(22-10-2014 07:56 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:My point is that there are components to our CULTURE which negatively affect the public perception of whiteness

Nobody gives a shit.
I'm white and I don't give a shit.

The fact is that it is far easier being white than it is being a social minority. If anything a little white negativity will do the world a bit of good for heading in a direction of cultural acceptance.

"a little white negativity will do the world a bit of good".

I couldn't disagree more. Tangible areas of inequality need to be addressed, but irrational contempt for whiteness is wrong and white people born today do not deserve it.

Also - try not to be so emotional. Saying things like "nobody gives a shit" is not only false, it's unnecessarily abrasive. If you "don't give a shit", why did you post?

PS: Being white gives you no extra credibility. A black person's opinion on this topic would be just as valid as yours (as would anyone else's).
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22-10-2014, 01:52 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(07-10-2014 01:04 PM)Res Publica Wrote:  gender is a social construct (that must be smashed).

It is. Drinking Beverage Or at least gender roles are. But I can see from your posts that you probably don't know anything about the subject.

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22-10-2014, 01:58 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(22-10-2014 07:21 AM)Spade=Spade Wrote:  What I have argued for is:

1) White stereotypes exist (in our culture).
2) They are generally overlooked relative to other stereotypes which also exist.

What I have NOT argued for is:

1) People are racist against whites.
2) This behaviour is overlooked.

Indeed. And this is going to get you a big honking so what? as a response.

That white people are generally advantaged does not mean that they are never disadvantaged, and as far as I am aware nobody has ever made that claim.

Stereotyping (a cognitive shortcut we're all prey to) and more importantly prejudice are simply less consequential when directed against the privileged.

There are a lot of negative stereotypes about rich people, too, but they're eminently free to not give a fuck, because they're still rich.

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22-10-2014, 09:25 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(22-10-2014 07:21 AM)Spade=Spade Wrote:  @Impulse

What I have argued for is:

1) White stereotypes exist (in our culture).
2) They are generally overlooked relative to other stereotypes which also exist.

What I have NOT argued for is:

1) People are racist against whites.
2) This behaviour is overlooked.

By arguing that some people call white people "honky", you have demonstrated that (despite my best efforts) you do not understand my OP. My point is that there are components to our CULTURE which negatively affect the public perception of whiteness - just like there are components to our culture which negatively affect the public perception of nearly all other groups - the difference is (I believe) that the acknowledgement that whiteness is just as vulnerable to negative public perception as any other group does not yet exist.
The only thing I may have missed is that you aren't also including racism against whites (apparently). But you still have not demonstrated the white stereotypes. I'm not even saying that they don't exist, but you haven't provided even one clear example. Yet you seem to think it's some huge deal. And, once you can come up with one, you still have to show that the acknowledgement of these white stereotypes and the associated negative perceptions does not yet exist as you claim.

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22-10-2014, 09:46 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(22-10-2014 09:25 PM)Impulse Wrote:  The only thing I may have missed is that you aren't also including racism against whites (apparently). But you still have not demonstrated the white stereotypes. I'm not even saying that they don't exist, but you haven't provided even one clear example. Yet you seem to think it's some huge deal. And, once you can come up with one, you still have to show that the acknowledgement of these white stereotypes and the associated negative perceptions does not yet exist as you claim.

It's hard to do that when white people aren't systematically discriminated against.

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22-10-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: The hidden attack on whiteness
(22-10-2014 09:46 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(22-10-2014 09:25 PM)Impulse Wrote:  The only thing I may have missed is that you aren't also including racism against whites (apparently). But you still have not demonstrated the white stereotypes. I'm not even saying that they don't exist, but you haven't provided even one clear example. Yet you seem to think it's some huge deal. And, once you can come up with one, you still have to show that the acknowledgement of these white stereotypes and the associated negative perceptions does not yet exist as you claim.

It's hard to do that when white people aren't systematically discriminated against.

Be careful Logica stating the simple truth like that makes you an anti-white racist apparently.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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