The history of Jewish historians.
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19-07-2013, 07:42 PM
The history of Jewish historians.
Pre-1800's Jewish historians didn't deal with events early in the bible ( the first books) they correctly saw them as an unreliable source to be considered a part of history, they also knew that those early bible books were written long after the events happened. Josephus ( a hellenized Jew) and Jost who wrote later after Josephus. Both historians left out early history of Jews as mentioned in the first books of the bible.

This is significant because the whole idea of Jews being a "race" "one people" and this people/race as deserving of a nation to rule their own wasn't recognized by Jewish historians until the 1800s.

There is NO PRE-1800s WRITINGS by any Jewish person that speaks of Jews as being anything like a race or a unified cultural group. For the most part, Jews in x country saw themselves as x citizens, Jews in y country saw themselves as y citizens and were proud to be in those countries and flourished in those countries.

When and why did Jewish historians turn from dismissing the early holy books as historically reliable to accepting them as part of history?

Heinrich Graetz was among the first around 1850 to forge a history of Jews based on Old Testament myths. These myths were necessary to lay the foundation for the "right to return" and the other myth that Jews were one cohesive group that just happened to be separated among the world.

During Graetzs time in Europe, Europe was seeing a rise in a new idea known as nationalism, people's and countries of all kinds were rewriting their past for the same reasons Jews in this time would begin to rewrite their past.
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19-09-2013, 10:01 PM
Re: The history of Jewish historians.
Please shed more information
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19-09-2013, 10:53 PM
RE: The history of Jewish historians.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XfTJ3Njk...Uzr8tjWYjA
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20-09-2013, 01:32 AM
RE: The history of Jewish historians.
http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/07israel
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20-09-2013, 04:10 AM
Re: The history of Jewish historians.
What of Jews in ghettos that were identified as such by being subject to different laws throughout different areas of Europe?

This is reflected throughout the late medieval times and renaissance in various types of texts.

The unified groups argument seems far off an exaggeration. The rise of a deeper connection isn't solely connected to that.

They were noted as having relevance since only Jews were allowed to charge interest in loans, it was banned for Christians, and they had Jewish identifying cultures in growth because of this.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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20-09-2013, 04:28 AM
RE: The history of Jewish historians.
(20-09-2013 04:10 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  What of Jews in ghettos that were identified as such by being subject to different laws throughout different areas of Europe?

This is reflected throughout the late medieval times and renaissance in various types of texts.

The unified groups argument seems far off an exaggeration. The rise of a deeper connection isn't solely connected to that.

They were noted as having relevance since only Jews were allowed to charge interest in loans, it was banned for Christians, and they had Jewish identifying cultures in growth because of this.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe

Much of modern jewish culture didn't come from the middle east but rather it was european in all of it's aspects even it's ancestry.
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20-09-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: The history of Jewish historians.
(20-09-2013 04:28 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 04:10 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  What of Jews in ghettos that were identified as such by being subject to different laws throughout different areas of Europe?

This is reflected throughout the late medieval times and renaissance in various types of texts.

The unified groups argument seems far off an exaggeration. The rise of a deeper connection isn't solely connected to that.

They were noted as having relevance since only Jews were allowed to charge interest in loans, it was banned for Christians, and they had Jewish identifying cultures in growth because of this.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe

Much of modern jewish culture didn't come from the middle east but rather it was european in all of it's aspects even it's ancestry.

This ignores the actual diaspora of tribes from the Middle East.

And as for Koestler's book, "academic critiques of its research were generally negative".

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-09-2013, 08:47 AM
RE: The history of Jewish historians.
(20-09-2013 08:43 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 04:28 AM)I and I Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe

Much of modern jewish culture didn't come from the middle east but rather it was european in all of it's aspects even it's ancestry.

This ignores the actual diaspora of tribes from the Middle East.

And as for Koestler's book, "academic critiques of its research were generally negative".

What parts of the book were critics critical of?

Tribes thousands of years ago disappear in the same manner as any other tribe, assimilated into other religions, cultures, etc etc. We came from a tribe too thousands of years ago, but guess what, who the fuck cares.
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20-09-2013, 09:59 AM
RE: The history of Jewish historians.
(20-09-2013 08:47 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(20-09-2013 08:43 AM)Chas Wrote:  This ignores the actual diaspora of tribes from the Middle East.

And as for Koestler's book, "academic critiques of its research were generally negative".

What parts of the book were critics critical of?

Tribes thousands of years ago disappear in the same manner as any other tribe, assimilated into other religions, cultures, etc etc. We came from a tribe too thousands of years ago, but guess what, who the fuck cares.

They were critical of his research. His alleged 'facts'.

Jews were socially, and therefore genetically, isolated for most of their history in Europe. There was far less out-breeding than for other groups.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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