The humility of the faithful
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01-03-2012, 02:35 AM
The humility of the faithful
I just wanted to reiterate this well known attitude a bit. Imagine you're just a regular guy. Not many talents, kinda average in life, couple of friends, just all around average. So you decide to adopt the title of "Christian." Now suddenly you're God's right hand man. You, Joe Average, are one of the select few who the creator of the entire universe takes a personal interest in. In fact, God's going to give you eternal paradise and punish with eternal torture all those smarter, more athletic, and better looking people who made you feel so insignificant in this life. YOU have the truth, THEY are deceived.

Christians are constantly trying to "save my soul." And they claim that only through Jesus can I be saved. The problem is, Jesus isn't here. They are. So while they claim that "only through Jesus can you be saved," what they really mean is, "only through me can you be saved." Since they are a personal representative of Jesus (after all, it's not a religion, it's a relationship), they will speak for Jesus in order to save me.

Do you know how condescending and pretentious that is? To believe that you are better than me, and that you have the power to save me from my sinful ways and damnation? You are the beacon of goodness, with God on speed dial, while I am a pathetic fool, deceived by Satan and doomed for hell unless you intervene.

Religion is a way for the unimportant to feel important; for the truly average to assume a mantle of relevance.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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01-03-2012, 03:04 AM
RE: The humility of the faithful
(01-03-2012 02:35 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Do you know how condescending and pretentious that is?

Having been on that side of the salvation hotline and now having the perspective of hindsight? Yes, I know exactly how pretentious that is. Utter douchebaggery.

It's also why I'm not out to convert people away from faith.
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01-03-2012, 06:52 AM
RE: The humility of the faithful
People and their power trips amuse me greatly.

I pity these fools. When one attempts to "save me" I can only look at these people and feel sorry for them. I feel sorry because they think so little of themselves that they must turn to lies and fairy tales to feel empowered.

I despise religion.

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01-03-2012, 11:35 AM
RE: The humility of the faithful
I was told a story about a married couple who wanted to save their unbelieving friend. They couldn't do it, so they asked the famous pastor Chuck Smith to do it. He talked to the friend, and the friend became a Christian. The married couple thanked Chuck Smith, and he said, "don't thank me. Thank God. I'm just his tool. If a surgeon saved your life, would you thank the scalpel?"

I've never liked this analogy. If the surgeon tried to use a rusty, ineffective scalpel on you before employing a working one, would you credit the scalpel or the incompetent surgeon who tried thrusting a broken tool at you first before employing the right one? In that case, I would thank the tool.

So anyway, the point I wanted to make is that some Christians are humble and really don't take the credit. But they should, because it's obvious from experiments like this (where the only change is the person doing the conversion speech) that the factor is not God... sometimes He's effective, and sometimes He's not, which is to say that He isn't really the factor at all.

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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01-03-2012, 12:43 PM
RE: The humility of the faithful
The fundies in my town don't know my true non-belief for this reason. Because ethan my opinion on EVERYTHING, including what baked goods and the bakery competition, is null and void, let alone on the more important things. Sad
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01-03-2012, 01:42 PM
RE: The humility of the faithful
(01-03-2012 12:43 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  The fundies in my town don't know my true non-belief for this reason. Because ethan my opinion on EVERYTHING, including what baked goods and the bakery competition, is null and void, let alone on the more important things. Sad

You can always send your baked goods to me. I won't judge you for using godless ingredients!

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01-03-2012, 02:23 PM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 02:26 PM by LadyJane.)
RE: The humility of the faithful
(01-03-2012 01:42 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 12:43 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  The fundies in my town don't know my true non-belief for this reason. Because ethan my opinion on EVERYTHING, including what baked goods and the bakery competition, is null and void, let alone on the more important things. Sad

You can always send your baked goods to me. I won't judge you for using godless ingredients!

I don't have any, I just judge. Ha ha!

(off topic)
My (very religious, YEC) father-in-law had one question before I married my husband, to see if I'd 'pass' (his words). He asked me, "If I come to your house, will you bake me a pie?" I tried not to laugh and I told him, "If I baked a pie and you come to my house, I will definitely give you a piece!" He was so thrilled with me. Still hasn't had any pie though, I don't bake Confused. I'm an evil trickery woman, I tell ya!

I would have maybe tried, but his wife gets first place in ALL the baking contests and he criticizes my cooking to death! Even tells distant relatives that I'm a horrible cook. I think it's because I'm not a meat and potatoes kind of person, ha ha.
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01-03-2012, 06:02 PM
RE: The humility of the faithful
"Go get Jesus and come back so that I can talk to him directly about saving me"

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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01-03-2012, 10:51 PM
RE: The humility of the faithful
BC, your point is valid, but I have to ask:

Would you view someone who is recruiting people to pursue a post secondary education arrogant? Maybe the person is doing it because they have a huge passion for seeing others advance themselves. Is it wrong that they consider a college education as a better and more solid step in the right direction?

Christians sincerely want to help (most do). And, they are doing what they think is the honest and right way to help others. It's not meant to be malicious and condescending just like the recruiter that pushes and badgers the high school or GED student to get a post secondary education.

Does a post secondary education make you successful? Does it define your success? Is someone with only a high school education a lesser person than the one with a college education?

Of course all of these answers are "no". However, this doesn't make what the recruiter does wrong or arrogant; it just makes them empathetic - they want you to have the same joy and satisfaction that they experience. It's not that they are insulting your current status quo and saying that yours is lesser than theirs, but it's just them offering you the opportunity for something that they think is greater.

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01-03-2012, 11:14 PM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 11:23 PM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: The humility of the faithful
(01-03-2012 10:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  BC, your point is valid, but I have to ask:

Would you view someone who is recruiting people to pursue a post secondary education arrogant? Maybe the person is doing it because they have a huge passion for seeing others advance themselves. Is it wrong that they consider a college education as a better and more solid step in the right direction?

Christians sincerely want to help (most do). And, they are doing what they think is the honest and right way to help others. It's not meant to be malicious and condescending just like the recruiter that pushes and badgers the high school or GED student to get a post secondary education.

Does a post secondary education make you successful? Does it define your success? Is someone with only a high school education a lesser person than the one with a college education?

Of course all of these answers are "no". However, this doesn't make what the recruiter does wrong or arrogant; it just makes them empathetic - they want you to have the same joy and satisfaction that they experience. It's not that they are insulting your current status quo and saying that yours is lesser than theirs, but it's just them offering you the opportunity for something that they think is greater.


I will tentatively accept the analogy, since the (let's just call it "college") recruiter is trying score points with his employer and the religious are trying to score points with the creator. But the glaring difference that I see is that college is demonstrably beneficial, while religion is arguably harmful. It binds you to a rigid belief system and forces your morals to be objective in a subjective world. You gain nothing from religion that can't be obtained without it.

And so I think it's the ambiguity of the goodness of the product being sold that makes the salesman that much more pretentious. You might as well be offering to cure a person's illness with magnets, if they would simply accept that they are helpless without the magnets that you can provide.

Edit: I guess that would also explain why you don't see them in the same light as I do. You believe the product they are selling is real and works. I believe it's a hoax, akin to snake oil and the healing power of crystals. So it's not so much the person trying to save me that I have a problem with, but rather the bogus religion that they are trying to save me with. After all, if it was proven that we all had diseases and someone offered me the cure, I wouldn't be offended, I would be grateful.

"Ain't got no last words to say, yellow streak right up my spine. The gun in my mouth was real and the taste blew my mind."

"We see you cry. We turn your head. Then we slap your face. We see you try. We see you fail. Some things never change."
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