The job conundrum.
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02-05-2013, 05:51 PM
The job conundrum.
Maybe someone here can shed some light on this.

America is said to be in hard financial times. For a number of months the jobless rate has he'd steady at over 9% nationwide. In recent times it has dropped to 7.6% nationally, but some analysts say that's a result of the unemployed simply giving up and ceasing to file with unemployment offices. Over 40% of all college graduates are completely overqualified for the work they do.

Ironically if you look at job sites like Monster, Careerbuilder, etc or Department of Workforce Services, there seems to be no lack of employment opportunities there for just about every career field you can imagine. I see jobs daily that I'm more than capable of doing out there by the hundreds, even thousands.

But when I apply, the resume seems to disappear into a black hole, never to be heard from again.

It's become my conclusion that the jobless rates and unemployment are directly the fault of the companies themselves.

1) There are no entry level jobs anymore. It seems these days that every job listed requires 5 years of experience. I'm not sure if this is the fault of a bunch of bureaucratic assholes who run the HR departments themselves or the fault of greedy and lazy management who won't spend the time and money to train new employees. At any rate, in theory, absolutely no one would be eligible for employment. Even the most stellar students coming out of the finest universities are not competitive for these requirements. It used to be that college would count for professional experience. Not anymore. And the companies are so odious and arrogant about this; I recently saw a job ad for a cashier at McDonalds. It listed '3 years experience as a cashier required. Bachelor's Degree required.' I about fell out of my chair laughing. All this does is encourage employees to lie and be deceptive on their applications; there is no other way to get around these requirements unless you do this.

2) Almost no opportunities for volunteering and internships to build up experience. No one will bring these people onboard to gain the required skills by working for free.

3). Keyword scanners. Every job description has a series of keywords embedded in them. When you submit a resume, companies use screening software to scan and find these keywords in your resume. If all keywords are not present, the resume is rejected. A quality engineer who does not describe themselves as a 'senior technology quality specialist' is screened out, despite the fact that they have done they exact same job. This again begins to breed wordsmiths which pack their resumes with every fucking keyword on the planet and complete flowery bullshit language to describe tasks such as cleaning toilets and making beds. Jesus wept.

4) The cunts which run temp shops. Are you a brainless twat who doesn't know shit from shinola about the jobs you are recruiting for? Good! You can be a recruiter for Kelly Services, Snelling, Volt, etc. these assholes are resume screening spiders in the flesh. What's more, they have very few scruples and are dumber than a bag of rocks. You can be rejected for a job, rewrite and resubmit you with some keyword or obscure software program and they'll hire you all in about 20 minutes. It doesn't matter if it's a lie, they just do this!

Am I missing anything here in coming to this conclusion?

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

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02-05-2013, 06:52 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2013 06:57 PM by Elesjei.)
RE: The job conundrum.
That's basically what I see in my part of Canada.

Every job listing requires experience way above the level that it did years ago. I was looking at landscaping jobs a while ago, and while in 2008 to get a job as a junior gardener (cutting trees, bushes, planting things) you'd need "1 to 7 months experience". Now, every similar job says 3-5 years. 3-5 years, to be a part-time assistant. Normally your wage after working for a few years would be around $16/hour, but now every job is $12/hour at most.

Also, no one respects degrees. I've seen so many people working cash or sales at retail stores who have degrees in everything from psychology to history to social work. It seems you need to be a scar-faced veteran to get an "entry-level" job in your field.

And it seems every company larger than a small, 6-man business outsources human resources to employment service companies like the retards at 'Apple One'. For one, the people are incompetent and have no clue what the jobs they try to connect you with are. Secondly, they completely ignore any preferences you give them, especially travel distance. No, I don't have a car, so I can't go to the god-damned lakeshore. Over 5 hours of commuting per day for an 8-hour job? **** you. Do you know that the local bus schedule is online? Can't you check to make sure I'm not making the journey to Mecca every day just to earn a few bucks?

The worst companies are those like Petsmart, that use these idiotic systems where you fill out an online form that rejects everyone who doesn't select the exact answers that the company has chosen for the position. If the question is, "how comfortable are you working in a high stress environment?", and you say "very", you get rejected because you aren't extreme enough. You have to pretend that the minimum wage job is the best thing you have ever heard of, that it is your life goal to work there. Anything less means your resume is tossed in the trash. Even if you answer what they want, they don't give you what type of job you sign up for. You want to do grooming? Too bad, you're on cash every day 'till you quit.

Even though legally internships are supposed to be paid, nobody pays interns. And they require interns to already have significant experience with the job. The reality is, they aren't getting interns to build up new workers who will continue on as permanent workers, they just want free labour. It's cheaper to get interns with years of experience than it is to pay them as regular employees to do the same job. 40 hours of slave labour a week.

The answer is greed. The job market was terrible, and once people were out of work, companies saw the opportunity. Why pay newbies to do entry-level jobs when you can get veterans to do the same thing for the same price?

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02-05-2013, 07:09 PM
RE: The job conundrum.
But that way they make more profit and that helps everyone! right? right?

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02-05-2013, 07:59 PM
RE: The job conundrum.
(02-05-2013 05:51 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Am I missing anything here in coming to this conclusion?

Quite a lot, actually. Not that I disagree with much of what you said, because I don't. But... the private sector writ large hasn't created the problems you pointed out. Some individuals within the private sector have leveraged the guns of the state to create the problems we have but they are not representative of the majority of business owners in the US. The majority of business owners in the US own small businesses and do not participate (at least not directly) in the harmful legislation that causes the problems you're complaining about. Like you, they are simply trying to pay their bills and keep food on their tables. The only difference is that they have more at stake than their employees. How do I know? Because I'm one of them.

Regarding wages, the minimum wage laws are the reason companies no longer hire unskilled labor. And they're the reason why jobs that used to pay $16.00 hr. only pay $12.00. Before those laws were put in place, low paying jobs were done mostly by students and some retired folk. The students as a means of sustaining themselves through college and the retired as something to busy themselves with. And when sweeping the floor could be hired out at $3.00 per hour, a skilled technician could be paid $16.00 per hour. Now that one can't hire his floors swept for less than $8.00 per hour... that $16.00 per hour job takes a five dollar cut to make up the difference. And frankly, if I'm to be forced to pay $8.00 per hour, I am going to require a skill level that is commensurate to the salary.

Therefore... no more low paying jobs for students, retired people or just those who aren't capable of or willing to gather the necessary skills to command a higher wage. And understand, in all cases except those where one is incapable of learning, your skill level and thus, your salary, is a personal choice.

Another problem companies face is employment law. It is becoming more and more difficult to fire an incompetent or abusive employee and because of that, employers are forced to vet their potential hires more thoroughly. Likewise with regulatory compliance. In a lot of trades one can't simply hire an unskilled worker because in order to do so, he must also keep a high skilled, licensed hand on the job regardless the skill level of the tasks being performed. So if you own a plumbing company, you have to have a $15.00+ per hour plumber on the job watching an $8.00 hand do unskilled labor, otherwise you face fines sometimes as high as $10,000.00 per incident. So guess what... no job for you until you have a license. Which means, again, more unskilled, lower paying jobs go by the wayside.

Oh and, if you have to hire a plumber and you get sticker shock when you're billed $150.00 for replacing a nine dollar p-trap.... think about that regulatory compliance. As a matter of fact, if the plumber you hire actually goes by the law... he'll have to buy a $40.00-80.00 permit from the city before he ever even begins to bill you for actually changing that trap. And yes, you'll be charged labor for the amount of time it takes him or his help to go to the city permit office, stand in line, fill out the paperwork and buy the permit. Plumbers in my city charge from $75.00 to $110.00 per hour. So, you could be $200.00 in before a wrench ever gets pulled off the truck, depending on your locale and the plumber you hire.

Regarding interns... there are very few industries left where one can legally work for experience rather than pay, so thank the state again if you want to get on the job experience and are turned down because the employer can't justify paying you for your education.

Another thing that is seemingly unrelated to employment is inflation. The inflation of the money supply causes our cost of living to rise and thus, causes entry level salaries to be too low for most people to live on... especially those with families to support. It takes less labor to produce everything we produce today but the labor costs for production are 300-500% higher today than they were 100 years ago. That has nothing to do with your boss being greedy. It has everything to do with government manipulation of the money supply. In the end, if a gallon of milk were still $0.32, three dollars per hour would be a high salary.

Lastly... that 9% unemployment rate reported in the media is grossly misrepresented. In reality, it stands at around 25%, when we include all people who want to work but are unable to find work, regardless of whether or not they've given up looking. And the drop in the unemployment rate is mostly due to government jobs which, while they are good for those who get them, actually take away from the total GNP of the country because of the opportunity costs and lack of calculable value brought to bear in the marketplace.

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02-05-2013, 08:00 PM
RE: The job conundrum.
(02-05-2013 07:09 PM)nach_in Wrote:  But that way they make more profit and that helps everyone! right? right?

Ah, yes..............the Job Creators.

Next to 'Jesus died for your wretched sinful ass because He loves you' the Job Creators moniker for Big Business is the most beautifully crafted bullshit out there.

Don't tax them! If you don't tax them so much, they'll create more jobs!

Nope, the greedy fucks got what they wanted, didn't lift a goddamn finger, fired another 10% of the workforce and pocketed the rest of the money.

They down hire new grads because they have a population of older, experienced workers out there and it's cheaper to just hire them. If you're a director of engineering of a large firm and you can hire a group of new grads and train them at company expense and make a $300,000 bonus or hire experienced workers, don't spend any cash to train them , and as a consequence make a $500,000 bonus, they seem to choose the latter.

The problem is, if you aren't training the new generation in the art of designing and building things, you lose that capability as a country. Any industry eg textile manufacturing, electronics design, food processing, etc. has an art to it and the best employees are artists at it. When they retire, there is a brain drain and the country loses that capability. As an aerospace engineer, I see the day of reckoning has begun for that industry. Now they scramble desperately for new talent, still fighting against HR bureaucrats and their ilk.

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02-05-2013, 08:05 PM
RE: The job conundrum.
(02-05-2013 05:51 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  2) Almost no opportunities for volunteering and internships to build up experience.

I would add to this list apprenticeship. I can't understand why this has fallen out of favor.

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02-05-2013, 10:22 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2013 11:48 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: The job conundrum.
What can I add that bbeljefe hasn't already said himself?

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02-05-2013, 11:29 PM
RE: The job conundrum.
(02-05-2013 07:59 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(02-05-2013 05:51 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Am I missing anything here in coming to this conclusion?

Quite a lot, actually. Not that I disagree with much of what you said, because I don't. But... the private sector writ large hasn't created the problems you pointed out. Some individuals within the private sector have leveraged the guns of the state to create the problems we have but they are not representative of the majority of business owners in the US. The majority of business owners in the US own small businesses and do not participate (at least not directly) in the harmful legislation that causes the problems you're complaining about. Like you, they are simply trying to pay their bills and keep food on their tables. The only difference is that they have more at stake than their employees. How do I know? Because I'm one of them.

Regarding wages, the minimum wage laws are the reason companies no longer hire unskilled labor. And they're the reason why jobs that used to pay $16.00 hr. only pay $12.00. Before those laws were put in place, low paying jobs were done mostly by students and some retired folk. The students as a means of sustaining themselves through college and the retired as something to busy themselves with. And when sweeping the floor could be hired out at $3.00 per hour, a skilled technician could be paid $16.00 per hour. Now that one can't hire his floors swept for less than $8.00 per hour... that $16.00 per hour job takes a five dollar cut to make up the difference. And frankly, if I'm to be forced to pay $8.00 per hour, I am going to require a skill level that is commensurate to the salary.

Therefore... no more low paying jobs for students, retired people or just those who aren't capable of or willing to gather the necessary skills to command a higher wage. And understand, in all cases except those where one is incapable of learning, your skill level and thus, your salary, is a personal choice.

Another problem companies face is employment law. It is becoming more and more difficult to fire an incompetent or abusive employee and because of that, employers are forced to vet their potential hires more thoroughly. Likewise with regulatory compliance. In a lot of trades one can't simply hire an unskilled worker because in order to do so, he must also keep a high skilled, licensed hand on the job regardless the skill level of the tasks being performed. So if you own a plumbing company, you have to have a $15.00+ per hour plumber on the job watching an $8.00 hand do unskilled labor, otherwise you face fines sometimes as high as $10,000.00 per incident. So guess what... no job for you until you have a license. Which means, again, more unskilled, lower paying jobs go by the wayside.

Oh and, if you have to hire a plumber and you get sticker shock when you're billed $150.00 for replacing a nine dollar p-trap.... think about that regulatory compliance. As a matter of fact, if the plumber you hire actually goes by the law... he'll have to buy a $40.00-80.00 permit from the city before he ever even begins to bill you for actually changing that trap. And yes, you'll be charged labor for the amount of time it takes him or his help to go to the city permit office, stand in line, fill out the paperwork and buy the permit. Plumbers in my city charge from $75.00 to $110.00 per hour. So, you could be $200.00 in before a wrench ever gets pulled off the truck, depending on your locale and the plumber you hire.

Regarding interns... there are very few industries left where one can legally work for experience rather than pay, so thank the state again if you want to get on the job experience and are turned down because the employer can't justify paying you for your education.

Another thing that is seemingly unrelated to employment is inflation. The inflation of the money supply causes our cost of living to rise and thus, causes entry level salaries to be too low for most people to live on... especially those with families to support. It takes less labor to produce everything we produce today but the labor costs for production are 300-500% higher today than they were 100 years ago. That has nothing to do with your boss being greedy. It has everything to do with government manipulation of the money supply. In the end, if a gallon of milk were still $0.32, three dollars per hour would be a high salary.

Lastly... that 9% unemployment rate reported in the media is grossly misrepresented. In reality, it stands at around 25%, when we include all people who want to work but are unable to find work, regardless of whether or not they've given up looking. And the drop in the unemployment rate is mostly due to government jobs which, while they are good for those who get them, actually take away from the total GNP of the country because of the opportunity costs and lack of calculable value brought to bear in the marketplace.

This. Except the government manipulation of money bit considering government is what is keeping that inflation at 0.5 or 1 or 1.5% rather then 20% this year, 5% that year -2% the year after etc..


Minimum wage is a scourge. I don't understand that where in an economy where pretty much everything the government does to effect it they weight the pros and cons economically, yet when it comes to minimum wage they throw all the economic sense out the window.
I blame politically correctness. "We're all equal!!". Bullshit, when it comes to work you are not equal.
Free wage market is where it's at.

I think part of the problem as well is the change in worker mentality. Back in my parents day you'd go to work and you'd very likely be with the same company for a very long time. Today people change jobs much much more frequently.
As such what was profitable to train your employees and invest money in them has no longer become profitable if that person is just going to leave after 2years and go to your competitor.

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02-05-2013, 11:48 PM
 
RE: The job conundrum.
(02-05-2013 05:51 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Maybe someone here can shed some light on this.

America is said to be in hard financial times. For a number of months the jobless rate has he'd steady at over 9% nationwide. In recent times it has dropped to 7.6% nationally, but some analysts say that's a result of the unemployed simply giving up and ceasing to file with unemployment offices. Over 40% of all college graduates are completely overqualified for the work they do.

Ironically if you look at job sites like Monster, Careerbuilder, etc or Department of Workforce Services, there seems to be no lack of employment opportunities there for just about every career field you can imagine. I see jobs daily that I'm more than capable of doing out there by the hundreds, even thousands.

But when I apply, the resume seems to disappear into a black hole, never to be heard from again.

It's become my conclusion that the jobless rates and unemployment are directly the fault of the companies themselves.

1) There are no entry level jobs anymore. It seems these days that every job listed requires 5 years of experience. I'm not sure if this is the fault of a bunch of bureaucratic assholes who run the HR departments themselves or the fault of greedy and lazy management who won't spend the time and money to train new employees. At any rate, in theory, absolutely no one would be eligible for employment. Even the most stellar students coming out of the finest universities are not competitive for these requirements. It used to be that college would count for professional experience. Not anymore. And the companies are so odious and arrogant about this; I recently saw a job ad for a cashier at McDonalds. It listed '3 years experience as a cashier required. Bachelor's Degree required.' I about fell out of my chair laughing. All this does is encourage employees to lie and be deceptive on their applications; there is no other way to get around these requirements unless you do this.

2) Almost no opportunities for volunteering and internships to build up experience. No one will bring these people onboard to gain the required skills by working for free.

3). Keyword scanners. Every job description has a series of keywords embedded in them. When you submit a resume, companies use screening software to scan and find these keywords in your resume. If all keywords are not present, the resume is rejected. A quality engineer who does not describe themselves as a 'senior technology quality specialist' is screened out, despite the fact that they have done they exact same job. This again begins to breed wordsmiths which pack their resumes with every fucking keyword on the planet and complete flowery bullshit language to describe tasks such as cleaning toilets and making beds. Jesus wept.

4) The cunts which run temp shops. Are you a brainless twat who doesn't know shit from shinola about the jobs you are recruiting for? Good! You can be a recruiter for Kelly Services, Snelling, Volt, etc. these assholes are resume screening spiders in the flesh. What's more, they have very few scruples and are dumber than a bag of rocks. You can be rejected for a job, rewrite and resubmit you with some keyword or obscure software program and they'll hire you all in about 20 minutes. It doesn't matter if it's a lie, they just do this!

Am I missing anything here in coming to this conclusion?

OMG. You had me at economics. I have two bizzare obsessions. One is learning cheezy pop songs on the bass guitar, the other is reading economic news.

You have really posted something here. I had no idea that's what it was like. I'm a nurse, and things are pretty straight forward: ICU experience? Yes. You know someone in our ICU and you play well with others? Yes. You're hired. But I have wondered what it was like for say a new Business graduate, or someone with a degree in Basket Weaving. Truth is, I don't see any hope for young grads. Except this: Go out and create a business. America was built on entrepreneurialism for one reason--it has horrible recessions and depressions. The only thing left is to start a business of your own.

OMG I'm too drunk to post. I'm just going to read.
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02-05-2013, 11:56 PM
RE: The job conundrum.
(02-05-2013 11:48 PM)Egor Wrote:  
(02-05-2013 05:51 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  Maybe someone here can shed some light on this.

America is said to be in hard financial times. For a number of months the jobless rate has he'd steady at over 9% nationwide. In recent times it has dropped to 7.6% nationally, but some analysts say that's a result of the unemployed simply giving up and ceasing to file with unemployment offices. Over 40% of all college graduates are completely overqualified for the work they do.

Ironically if you look at job sites like Monster, Careerbuilder, etc or Department of Workforce Services, there seems to be no lack of employment opportunities there for just about every career field you can imagine. I see jobs daily that I'm more than capable of doing out there by the hundreds, even thousands.

But when I apply, the resume seems to disappear into a black hole, never to be heard from again.

It's become my conclusion that the jobless rates and unemployment are directly the fault of the companies themselves.

1) There are no entry level jobs anymore. It seems these days that every job listed requires 5 years of experience. I'm not sure if this is the fault of a bunch of bureaucratic assholes who run the HR departments themselves or the fault of greedy and lazy management who won't spend the time and money to train new employees. At any rate, in theory, absolutely no one would be eligible for employment. Even the most stellar students coming out of the finest universities are not competitive for these requirements. It used to be that college would count for professional experience. Not anymore. And the companies are so odious and arrogant about this; I recently saw a job ad for a cashier at McDonalds. It listed '3 years experience as a cashier required. Bachelor's Degree required.' I about fell out of my chair laughing. All this does is encourage employees to lie and be deceptive on their applications; there is no other way to get around these requirements unless you do this.

2) Almost no opportunities for volunteering and internships to build up experience. No one will bring these people onboard to gain the required skills by working for free.

3). Keyword scanners. Every job description has a series of keywords embedded in them. When you submit a resume, companies use screening software to scan and find these keywords in your resume. If all keywords are not present, the resume is rejected. A quality engineer who does not describe themselves as a 'senior technology quality specialist' is screened out, despite the fact that they have done they exact same job. This again begins to breed wordsmiths which pack their resumes with every fucking keyword on the planet and complete flowery bullshit language to describe tasks such as cleaning toilets and making beds. Jesus wept.

4) The cunts which run temp shops. Are you a brainless twat who doesn't know shit from shinola about the jobs you are recruiting for? Good! You can be a recruiter for Kelly Services, Snelling, Volt, etc. these assholes are resume screening spiders in the flesh. What's more, they have very few scruples and are dumber than a bag of rocks. You can be rejected for a job, rewrite and resubmit you with some keyword or obscure software program and they'll hire you all in about 20 minutes. It doesn't matter if it's a lie, they just do this!

Am I missing anything here in coming to this conclusion?

OMG. You had me at economics. I have two bizzare obsessions. One is learning cheezy pop songs on the bass guitar, the other is reading economic news.

You have really posted something here. I had no idea that's what it was like. I'm a nurse, and things are pretty straight forward: ICU experience? Yes. You know someone in our ICU and you play well with others? Yes. You're hired. But I have wondered what it was like for say a new Business graduate, or someone with a degree in Basket Weaving. Truth is, I don't see any hope for young grads. Except this: Go out and create a business. America was built on entrepreneurialism for one reason--it has horrible recessions and depressions. The only thing left is to start a business of your own.

OMG I'm too drunk to post. I'm just going to read.

No fuck you atheists you are causing unemployment? No, fuck you atheists you deserve to work at mcdonalds with your 50K degrees??

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!?
Egor? Hello?

I think he's been possessed.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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