The kinda weired request
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
24-01-2012, 09:42 AM
The kinda weired request
Hello my dear free thinkers,

I would like to ask you for your help.
Espacially the Ex-muslims.
I am having trouble with my "girlfriend" who is muslim.
"Girlfriend" of course because we are not allowed to be together Big Grin

Anyway she is trying to convince me with her religion for 4 years now and the only thing she was able to reach is that I started thinking about religion and I switched from christianity to Atheism Smile

Of course I want to convince her about Atheism now too.
Not just because I realized how stupid religion is, but also because that is the only way for us to be together.

A few days ago we had a very loud argument and she agreed if I will be able to show her one, yes just one contradiction in the quran that is impossible to "missunderstand"/interprate in any other way she will become an Atheist too, because she is convinced that (as the quran says) there are NO contradictions in the quran.

I am sure the best way for me to reach my aim now is asking ex-muslims because you people know the quran better than anyone else.


Hope you guys can help me Smile
Lookng forward to hear from you soon,


regards,

Martin


PS: Sorry for my bad english but I didn't use that language for quite a long time now Tongue
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2012, 09:46 AM
RE: The kinda weired request
Jackrabbit should be able to help you.

[Image: RHcn6pd.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kingschosen's post
24-01-2012, 09:52 AM
RE: The kinda weired request
(24-01-2012 09:42 AM)Polakmaly Wrote:  Hello my dear free thinkers,

I would like to ask you for your help.
Espacially the Ex-muslims.
I am having trouble with my "girlfriend" who is muslim.
"Girlfriend" of course because we are not allowed to be together Big Grin

Anyway she is trying to convince me with her religion for 4 years now and the only thing she was able to reach is that I started thinking about religion and I switched from christianity to Atheism Smile

Good for you for thinking about religion and coming to a rational conclusion.

Four years? Time to move on. And if you do move on, tell her why.

P.S. I honestly don't see how a woman with any intelligence or self-respect could be a Muslim, Christian, Jew, or Mormon.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2012, 10:04 AM
RE: The kinda weired request
Now, to think of it, yeah, you're in a tight place and you're approaching it the wrong way. You have to provide foolproof evidence from a silly old book that is impossible to wiggle away with heavy apologetics. I was able to explain or to wiggle all the bible. All of it, as imperfect and dumb as it was, I always had some excuse to reject the rational conclusions. My guess is that you won't be able to convince her with this method, no matter what Jackrabbit or other ex-Muslims may teach you.

Change the method or, as good ol' Chas says, change the woman. 4 years of forbidden love is long enough. Move forward to something that is more likely to work out.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Malleus's post
24-01-2012, 12:17 PM
RE: The kinda weired request
Have you read The Satanic verses by Salmon Rushdie you may find some real help in that book. I cant say I have the answer here my friend. I could be 180 deg. off base. The whole story on how Islam got started is in question with that book. You may find it a good read. I hope i was just a little help.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-01-2012, 02:01 PM
RE: The kinda weired request
Take some time to research and understand what you're arguing against if you really want to be able to have a conversation with her. Go a Google search for Koran contradictions and really read on up it. Read the counter arguments so you know how she'll react. Don't just approach with some sort of "Gotcha!" and allow her to wiggle out of it. If you've read up on it and you've taken the time then you can have a more intelligent discussion and provide counter arguments to her counter arguments.

I wish I could offer you some specific subject matter but I have never researched this subject.

With Christianity there were lots of things that added up over time for me to abandon it. It was not one single thing that made the difference. A would guess that you won't find the "golden bullet" for Islam either. Instead you will need to show her areas where proven science is in direct conflict with the Koran, where atrocities exist in the Koran, where support for in-humane behavior exists, where inequality exists, where some contradictions exist within itself, and to what ends support for each of these things must ultimately end (either support for the Koran or the arguments against it). Reason and evidence must prevail in order for her to change her mind. If she is unwilling to be reasonable then you cannot make progress.

But I would caution against just coming at her with a couple of lame arguments and not being able to handle a rebuttal.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-01-2012, 05:38 AM
RE: The kinda weired request
Thank you for your replies, I will try to reply to all of youSmile


to kingschosen:
Thank you I have already seen some videos from Jackrabbit(Hope it's the same person as here on that site) and I will contact him as soon as I can.

to Chas:
I thought about that too, already.
But I realized I do not want to move on without that girl,- and even if I did, I do not want her to waste her life on something and someone that doesn't exist.
She cares for me and for my "soul" so I can't just go without at least trying to help her to get out of it. It doesn't matter if we gonna end up together or not, but I hope you understand that 4 years tied us together even more than a marriage binding or anything else that could be compared to that. I care about her more than anything else. This is why I want to convince her.

to Malleus:
If I got you correctly that means reading the whole quran, so I will be able to show her what kind of shit that is.
To be honest I started reading it, but I stopped after about 100 pages because I wasn't sure if that was a fake one or if "god" thinks all people are stupid.
And no offence, but after only 100 pages I perfectly understand why we have so many (muslim)terrorists. I asked her about it but she started just talking dump and that I understand everythig wrong Big Grin

to N.E.OhioAtheist:
I checked google for the verses. Thank you they may help me, I will check them out Smile


to kineo:
You know I am feeling kinda helpless...
Just an inch is missing for me to give up.
I asked her many questions about her religion. Things that can't be.
Like the ark of Noah. I mean it's in the quran and the bible. How could Noah get so many animals, food etc on one ship? Just a simple question right?
And seriously if you think logically there is just one possible answer:
Impossible.
Her explanation?
MIRACLE
This is ridiculous.
That's why the only way to prove her that her religion is shit and one big lie, to show her the contradicions in her holy unfailable quran.

Thank you for your help,

regards,

Martin
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-01-2012, 06:32 AM
RE: The kinda weired request
Hi,
Have you checked out The Annotated Quran?
There's a contradictions tag. It might help.

"But the point is, find somebody to love. Everything else is overrated." - HouseofCantor
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-01-2012, 07:18 AM
RE: The kinda weired request
You understood me partially correctly. You have a few options. One of them, if you wish, is to become a Qur'an expert. Not the most cost-efficient, but one of them. What I was suggesting is that you try to make a case against religion in general, a case for atheism, and/or to attack the Qur'an with reason rather than trying to find and argue inner inconsistencies that will be impossible for her to refute. As I said before, the Bible is perhaps messier than the Qur'an, but somehow I managed to convince myself that in a twisted way it has to make sense. Remember that, by taking the situation as it is, you already agreed that she has nothing to prove to you or to convince you to accept (so you can't reject her faulty apologetics). You have to convince her that the Qur'an is inconsistent and she is free to apply any kind of faulty logic to prevent agreeing with the case you're making.

I would bet money on the fact that you won't reach her this way. Not unless you put the burden of proof where it belongs and you impose strict standards of proof.

By arguing Qur'an inconsistencies you will very likely encounter the following answers:

1. In the original Arabic version the words have a slightly different meaning so the verses are not really conflicting.
2. This is symbolic. The other verse is the one with a literal meaning.
3. In this situation, an exception from the rule you're quoting is perfectly justified.
4. Lawyer talk. Lots of lawyer talk to justify why everything doesn't fit perfectly.

If I was able to defend something as horribly flawed as the bible and if she is any good at it, she will most definitely defend against any possible inconsistencies that you will run across after serious work. My suggestion was to drop this challenge because i don't see any way for you to possibly win it. Challenge Islam in a different manner or have a good long talk with yourself. It doesn't seem to me that she is truly ready to drop her religion. She gave you this challenge because she is pretty sure she can win it. You are very unlikely to change this situation if she is a hardcore believer. Unless she drops her religion she *knows* that she is not allowed to be with you. Even if you're crazy in love with her, does it make any sense to focus on a relationship that will probably never go anywhere? How many more years do you think you should waste?

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Malleus's post
26-01-2012, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 26-01-2012 02:29 PM by Jackrabbit.)
RE: The kinda weired request
Well hey there martin Smile

I used to be muslim and the quran is full of contradictions/things a merciful god wouldnt do, intolerance, incitations to violence etc.

Off the top of my head, the quran states on many many occasions that the earth is flat
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_earth
and there are a couple of verses and hadith that say that black people are black because
they live on the edges of the flat earth and are closer to the sun, so it burned their skin.

Throw in the Qurans incredible unfairness towards women,
polygamy, unequal inheritence, wife beating condoned, sex slavery okay
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Women

and all these verses are in arabic and as a speaker i can testify to their accurate translations.
I even have an arabic study quran in my bedroom right now with definitions of old arabic words on the side.

Feel free to ask me about anything else Smile

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: