The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
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21-04-2011, 01:05 AM
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
Happy 420 everyone. And I hope you've all seen Hemp revolution documentary, that is the reason marijuana is illegal around the world, and that won't change any time soon. The textile and pharmaceutic industry is too strong for "us" to legalize their main resource enemy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0dMDAo39...rofilepage

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26-04-2011, 03:47 PM
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
Atheist usually seem logical when it comes to religion, but bring another topic into play and it wavers. Legalize pot because it isn't isn't as bad as the others that are legal? Come on, that is a huge fallacy at it's core. Granted pot does have benefits, it also has it's down sides too. All drugs need to be illegal because they are obviously bad for you as a human. Exceptions do need to be in play for medical purposes but if you allow it for pleasure someone will abuse it, we are human, we do that. So I will have to favor a lot of people suffering from the lack of a drug that helps you escape reality ( for what beauty and awe it gives us that we shouldn't need an escape from in the first place ) over people who get hurt from the downsides of these drugs.

My Dad started on pot and as a stepping stone drug has lead to cocaine and pills. Now he owes 150,000$ in court cost, is hooked on a variety of drugs such as pills, meth, and yes still pot. He has stole two grand from me, and I have lost my relationship with him.

My brother started on pot and this solely has caused him to steal from 30+ houses and is now serving time. He was recently charged for only 5 of his burglaries in one county ( still waiting court for the other 25+ ) on 5 counts of burglary of over 1000$ and simple possession. ( You guess it, pot. )

My Mom was drug into this life by my dad, she now owes nothing, NOTHING, at the age of 44. She is a constant burden to me always asking for help and money. She quit pot a while and has told me she quit her pill habit too after rehab.

Sure you can say you are different because you have self control, but being an atheist you can surely appreciate our control comes from our brains, which is merely chemical reactions, which drugs AFFECT.
Simply put, pot looks safe on paper and at a distance, until it affects you personally. We can not be a functional society if drugs of any kind are allowed for pleasure...
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26-04-2011, 04:35 PM
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
NotSoVacuous,

I know where you're coming from. I REALLY do. But making these things illegal is not the solution. First, the more we expect laws to protect us from ourselves, the more they will. Better to put all the money we spend enforcing these laws into education. Legalizing will not nescessarily mean more people getting addicted. It will most definitely mean, however, that the people who do choose to do these drugs will have safer access to them, resulting in less people hurt or dead due to drug deals gone bad in a back alley. It will also free up law enforcement and keep police safer and more available to those who need them. I haven't met a cop yet that wasn't all for legalizing pot.
As far as pot being a "gateway drug", perhaps this is true, but research shows (I'll look for a link later, gotta go coach my kids soccer in a minute) that marijuana is no more, and possibly less, of a gateway drug than alcohol. Also reseach shows (if you want that research it's readily available, so I won't bother looking for you) that alcohol and tobacco BOTH have more detrimental health effects than pot. The myth that pot is still largely un-researched is just that. A myth. The problem is people hear myths because they make the front page. When research shows it to be bollocks, it makes the 8th page in the corner, right onder the huge Chevrolet ad. Hell, I know plenty of people who still believe that pot kills brain cells!

I'm not saying drugs don't harm people, but I just don't see having laws prohibiting people from doing them to have benefit. All it does is make those people do them anyways, but adds a criminal charge and an overburdened penal system.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
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26-04-2011, 04:43 PM
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
@ Stark

To argue that the amount of people using it would go down or stay the same is silly, it will increase we just don't know by how much. ( Not saying that you said that, I am just implying that more people will use it.)

So lets assume it gets legalized. This does not mean places of business will allow you to be intoxicated or have it in your system while you are employed there. One could argue that people will be fired because they will choose their addiction over their jobs, and they will, cause they do today. So then you have the same problem as before but now we have more people addicted. The problem has now grown.

And please, I just stated that arguing pot is not AS troublesome as alcohol does not mean it should be legalized! This is terrible logic!
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26-04-2011, 04:57 PM
 
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
Federal law supersedes State law. Which is why a man who had a State permit in California go grow, harvest and store medical Marijuana years ago was sentenced to life in prison, after being adjudicated in a Federal court for multiple counts of possession with intent to distribute.
We're talking a warehouse full of bails, here. The California jury was not permitted to hear the man had a California permit and was completely legal, because the charges and the jurisdiction prosecuting him was Federal.
After the verdict, which took less than half an hour, the jury were told on live TV about the permit. One woman broke into tears, while other jurors who had graciously agreed to be interviewed by the press swore they'd work to get the man exonerated.

I didn't hear any follow up stories regarding that appeal, which the man was going to launch in any case, and had in fact quite forgotten about it until now. But that's why I tell people also, if they're ever arrested never sign anything. Not even the property receipt for what's emptied and seized from one's pockets.

That being said, I think drugs should be legalized across the board. Starting with pot and working it's way up.

Alcohol prohibition in the early 20th century proved prohibition laws do nothing but breed to life black market suppliers of that forbidden drink. Or drugs, as the case may be. They stand to make a fortune, because people will pay anything to get high and the overhead that includes law enforcement scrutiny and especially with RICO make for a very affluent and yet dangerous trade.

People are going to destroy themselves one way or the other by any thing their constitution deems a worthy vice. Might as well profit instead of go into deficit.
Legalize, tax as we do other drugs that include cigarettes and alcohol, not to mention the abused prescription pharmaceuticals, and take a portion of those tax proceeds to support rehab centers and paupers burials for the poor dead addicts that don't make it to rehab.

It would cut down on criminality something fierce, because low life gang bangin Glock toting thugs won't have cause to commit to a drive by just because a punk stiffed their ass on a dime bag of weed. Families in gang ridden territories, where drugs are at a premium as the number one unlawful revenue vehicle of choice, would finally be able to enjoy their furniture instead of living on the floor out of fear of flying bullets. Ask any family living in Compton, in southern LA.

Plus, overall crime rates would go down because for the price of a pack of blunts someone doesn't have to rob their family, or the mini-market.

It's like that old adage, if you do what you've always done you'll get what you've always gotten.

Thus far illegal drugs have gotten us what we see in the country now. Make designated area's for smoking weed, like they do now prohibiting use of cigarettes. It's not easy, but we have to do something because right now the illegal drug trade calls the shots, literally. And that's only going to get worse, because crime pays. Whereas something someone can buy at the local 7-11 is afforded at the price of putting scumbag's out of business.
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26-04-2011, 05:13 PM (This post was last modified: 26-04-2011 05:29 PM by NotSoVacuous.)
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
Grassy kitten

Quote:"It would cut down on criminality something fierce, because low life gang bangin Glock toting thugs won't have cause to commit to a drive by just because a punk stiffed their ass on a dime bag of weed"
Why do you people think that just because drugs being legalized would stop people from selling it illegally. It will be sold cheaper/tax free. It also will not be tampered with, it will still be "The good stuff" that the illegal drug dealers will sell. It happened with cigs and moonshine.

Quote:People are going to destroy themselves one way or the other by any thing their constitution deems a worthy vice. Might as well profit instead of go into deficit.
Legalize, tax as we do other drugs that include cigarettes and alcohol, not to mention the abused prescription pharmaceuticals, and take a portion of those tax proceeds to support rehab centers and paupers burials for the poor dead addicts that don't make it to rehab.
Are the proceeds also going to go the the families of their recently deceased father/mother/child? Is it also going to the medical bills? Their unemployment? The lack of social security that they didn't pay into, you know, cause they are dead or don't have a job?
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26-04-2011, 05:59 PM
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
In my opinion I personally feel that if Marijuana was legalized then our society would become even more lazy then it already is... but I will say Marijuana in my opinion causes people to think more openly without having any interference. If it was legalized and sold at a normal price and it was the high potency they sell in California there is no way someone would buy Marijuana from an illegal dealer because... 1. Most people lie about the potency of the Marijuana as it is already, 2. You don't have to worry about getting in trouble or robbed, there are so many pros and cons that it's just better off to wait and see how it goes in other countries.

I personally think it should be legalized to end the gangster crowd wanting to control the Marijuana... There are so many Cannabis offenders in the United States prisons that I personally think shouldn't be there. We the taxpayers have to pay for them as well just over a natural plant that induces a light high/buzz on us.
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26-04-2011, 06:48 PM
 
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
(26-04-2011 05:13 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  Grassy kitten

Quote:"It would cut down on criminality something fierce, because low life gang bangin Glock toting thugs won't have cause to commit to a drive by just because a punk stiffed their ass on a dime bag of weed"

Why do you people think that just because drugs being legalized would stop people from selling it illegally. It will be sold cheaper/tax free. It also will not be tampered with, it will still be "The good stuff" that the illegal drug dealers will sell. It happened with cigs and moonshine.
Ewww, I love being referred to as, "you people". It feels so deliciously white trash.

Well, people are always going to take what they want and there are always going to be those who will give them what they're not allowed to have.
Pharma parties, are a great example of that. Kid's overdose all the time, eating handfuls of legal prescription pills their peers stole from medicated family members medicine cabinets, purses, bedside stash, etc... just to escape the world they haven't even grown to be a real part of yet.

The canned dry air aerosol can beside my computer, used to clean dust bunnies from my keyboard, is abused as an inhaled high. Holes in people's brains, found on scans prove just because something's labeled so as to have a particular odor added to it so as to preclude such huffing or direct snorting into the nostrils, doesn't mean it's going to stop people from finding whatever high that is, at $4.36 per can.

Alcohol is legal and yet, kids are taken to hospitals all the time due to alcohol poisoning. And if someone is a celebrity under 21, they can easily access nightclubs in Beverly Hills and parts of LA, just on their facial recognition alone. And enjoy the vices that come with the pride of demi-god's because we the people love celebrity. Even when it's a minor.

So with all those legal, taxed, addictive, abused, killer cocktails and tabs of opportunity for self-destruction and death abound, they're still there making a bloody fortune for the manufacturers and both the federal and State governments that pimp them. Especially cigarettes, which cause cancer of the lung, mouth, esophagus and for the hella expensive price don't even get the user high for the sacrifice. And kids smoke those too, and are often at risk for cancers before they're old enough to legally buy a beer. But if they make it to 18, they can join the U.S. military and learn how to kill people in the name of liberty, freedom and cause, like a professional, with benefits! Especially if they live to retire.

[quote]People are going to destroy themselves one way or the other by any thing their constitution deems a worthy vice. Might as well profit instead of go into deficit.
Legalize, tax as we do other drugs that include cigarettes and alcohol, not to mention the abused prescription pharmaceuticals, and take a portion of those tax proceeds to support rehab centers and paupers burials for the poor dead addicts that don't make it to rehab.
Are the proceeds also going to go the the families of their recently deceased father/mother/child? Is it also going to the medical bills? Their unemployment? The lack of social security that they didn't pay into, you know, cause they are dead or don't have a job?

Do the proceeds garnered from alcohol, cigarettes, prescription drugs, canned air, oven cleaner, glue, and any number of other products used to alter perception, pay for families of deceased father's, mother's and children? Do those proceeds pay medical bills? Unemployment? And no worries about the social security. The dead are socially secure. Usually in a box, urn, or underwater as one of those nifty new Memorial Reefs. While what they may have paid into as FICA is absorbed back into the system. And had they lived to retire and were married, their spouse would have had to make a choice between which benefits that widower or widow wanted to receive in social security, because while those monies are the tax payers and not the governments, it's been decreed that the funds are not inheritable as part of one's estate, and so whatever amount is greater is the only option left available to sustain what's left of a dead citizens family after what can be decades of dedicated labor.
So when what someone works for all their employed life doesn't guarantee they'll be socially secure and taken care of, what makes you think the proceeds from the sale of anything at all would be allowed to? Is it now? Are those substances presently consumed by the populace being accorded as a dividend for recovery and rehabilitation to those who made the free will choice to use them?

If you imagine that what injures or addicts a person need to pay for their recovery in any way, there's a great deal already legal that may be pursued in matters of legislative policy to that end.

At least with the proposal to legalize drugs, it's a unique opportunity to do just that and as such set a precedent for what could occur for the rest. Of course, that would entail higher prices across the board for everything having potential to be abused. And that basically means, everything.

At least with legalization of drugs, it's a specific allotment that is set aside so as to help save people from themselves, as the cost of doing damage.
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26-04-2011, 07:14 PM
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
Grassykitten,

I really am trying to refrain from insulting you, but if you keep attacking strawman I am going to lose my composure. A: Just because X drug do this/do that or are legal DOES NOT MEAN POT SHOULD FOLLOW SUIT. B: I AM FOR ALL DRUGS BEING ILLEGAL, ALL OF THEM.

FFS Why can't you get that through your head. OH LOOK ANOTHER STRAWMAN BETTER GO GET IT.
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26-04-2011, 10:41 PM
 
RE: The legalization of marijuana and other drugs
(26-04-2011 07:14 PM)NotSoVacuous Wrote:  Grassykitten,

I really am trying to refrain from insulting you, but if you keep attacking strawman I am going to lose my composure.
Hey there buddy, let me save you a brain cell and some part of your heart threatened by that fluctuating erratic blood pressure because you're not mature enough to contain yourself while reading font.

I can't be insulted!

I don't let anyone's deficit personality that would even make the attempt, succeed. And that's what has to happen for you to insult me. I have to give you permission.
So you go for it, if you feel froggy. (see stone amphibian visual above) And in the course of making the attempt after this advice, insult yourself. Smile Okie Dokie?


Quote:A: Just because X drug do this/do that or are legal DOES NOT MEAN POT SHOULD FOLLOW SUIT. B: I AM FOR ALL DRUGS BEING ILLEGAL, ALL OF THEM.
No kidding! Really? Wow! News! Really! No, really! It's not that your posts smell like you're a cop, it's that your posts smell like you're a cop.

And since you can't understand that you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine and debate includes just that, which is point and counter point, enjoy your cuddle with imagined straw men. Given the opinions thus far would have you seeing straw men everywhere you look.

The point of inquiry in this thread is one that asks should pot and other illegal drugs be legalized.
IMO, Yes! Mind altering substances are already legalized, and some products never meant to be used/abused in such ways are abused so as to alter minds, so why not legalize and tax what's obviously causing a problem in the illegal market that's costing this country a fortune. Especially in prison expenditures. We're going to seriously cut our own throats in those States where a dime bag of reefer get's some kid 10 years in prison. It's ridiculous. Especially when that kid is housed with murderers serving 12!

Try to pay attention to the fact there are many in this thread and your opinion is but one.

It doesn't matter if you don't agree with my opinion.

However, you'll simply insult yourself thinking you're going to insult me into accepting for myself your point of view because you stop refraining and decide to lob personal insults into the conversation when amazingly enough, I got your point the first time! And rational free choice affords me the opportunity to disagree and present my counter argument.

You're not talking to a weak woman here, buddy. Threats have never worked on me, and I've walked this earth a long time. If you can't handle someone elses opinion without resorting to the straw man jibe and threats you'll make it personal, you've got serious issues.
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