The modern god that exists even to Atheists
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14-07-2016, 11:51 PM
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
(14-07-2016 02:47 PM)KerimF Wrote:  ...
(14-07-2016 11:12 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Evolution-theory leads to Nihilism. Absurdism lets us stare into the abyss with a smile.
Thumbsup

Oh... Nihilism and Absurdism are new to me. And I couldn't get the meaning in Arabic of the word 'abyss' Blush

My apologies. Here are some links:
Existential Nihilism
Absurdism

Nietzsche Wrote:"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

It means that the tormentor becomes the tormented.
People become what they love and hate, because their mind focuses on it.
The hall of mirrors folding in on itself.
Madness.

Think, CIA and water-boarding etc.

Or if you prefer:
Yoda: Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware. Anger, fear, aggression. The dark side are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
...
The Emperor: [to Luke] The alliance... will die. As will your friends. Good, I can feel your anger. I am defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
The Emperor: Come, boy, see for yourself. From here, you will witness the final destruction of the Alliance and the end of your insignificant rebellion.
[Luke's eyes go to his lightsabre]
The Emperor: You want this, don't you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Jedi weapon. Use it. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant.

[Image: quote-the-process-of-delving-into-the-bl...-95-22.jpg]

(14-07-2016 05:40 PM)KerimF Wrote:  ...
To my knowledge, I was born in a country in which I was able starting a private business at age 26 with a capital of $100 (it was equivalent to 500 SP in year 1975).
Till March 2011, I didn't meet or heard of a Syrian family that was poorer than of the medium class in America (Should I conclude that America is ruled by dictators Wink )
I lived and worked among millions of Muslim Syrians in total safety while they know from me that their Allah has nothing to do in my reality (Yes, they are open-minded more than most free American Evangelists I met on the internet! Shocking ).
But there are always exceptions. In early 80's, I had a Muslim friend whose family, unlike he, happened being fanatic and radical. So when the Muslim Brotherhoods started their terrorist attacks in my city Aleppo (by bombs planted on some streets) and their assassinations of the intellectual/educated Syrians (mainly doctors and engineers), his family was supporting the MB attackers. My friend (27 years) had two boy babies and a young wife and decided to move far from his big family to save his small family. When his uncle knew about his decision, he accused him to be infidel and found a way to eliminate him for good. So you can imagine what would happen if MB took over the power in Syria and created for the American rulers another military base to serve them. Yes, a new state would be created and called "the Islamic State" which is equivalent to "the Israeli State". Both have to be fanatic and radical. Both are based on some ancient books said holy. And if the American rulers will succeed in creating/protecting ISIS in these days (see Kerry in Russia), both are formed by millions of mercenaries exported to Middle East from all over the world. Back to early 80's, the price was real heavy for the millions of Syrians to restore their peace and safety because many thousands of innocent Syrians have to be killed or badly injured while cleaning Hama city from the military headquarters of the Muslim brotherhoods that was installed among civilians in the city. Soon after the total defeat of MB (the parents of Al-Qaeda that was also created to serve the American rulers... hence its army is now as strong as the American one, NATO and the Israeli army) the US System started applying economical sanctions against the Syrian people (even my small private business was affected till I knew how to contact Chinese Wink ). So it was a miracle (sorry Atheists Wink ) that the Syrian people, including myself, were able to go on developing their country while the rulers of the greatest nation dream to destroy it and replace it with an Islamic military base (though it will be dressed as being a civil state exactly as it was done in Palestine).
So I wonder what did you see on your monitors that convinced you that more than 22 millions of Syrians were naïve for not knowing they were ruled by a an evil superman till Obama discovered him from America in March 2011.
Did the Syrian president deceive his national troops and send them to attack and occupy another country to flourish the businesses of some big corporations as Pr. Bush did?
Did the Syrian president played anytime before his people the naïve confused kid as Pr. Bush did on 9/11/2001 by addressing the nation with two contradicting statements (I heard them live via Al-Jazeera) a few minutes after the first crash?
Did the Syrian president played in the name of his people the role of a judge and accused anyone of being a killer as Obama was instructed to do in order to destroy one country after another under the pretext to save the peoples from their dictators/killers... exactly as Bush saved the Iraqi people since year 2003?

I am afraid if the world has to call the Syrian president (I have nothing in common with him other than living in the same country) a dictator, I wonder how the American people should call their last two US presidents who didn't mind deceiving even their national army! But let us be rational, Americans are nice people and give always a second chance (if not 3rd, 4th and 5th....) to their ELECTED presidents as long they don't commit the sole crime against the nation... which is being involved in a sexual affair!

Thank you. That's a interesting perspective.

Also, the influx of Islamists from Chechnya was something that I have read about. Although I couldn't ascertain who was funding this or determine correlation vs. causation.

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15-07-2016, 12:02 AM (This post was last modified: 15-07-2016 12:13 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
(14-07-2016 05:40 PM)KerimF Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 11:19 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Do you think that the al-Assad regime is/was fair or not?

First, thank you to let me know you live in Germany.
What do you mean by AL-Assad regime?
Does a regime have a constitution?
Does a regime have a national army formed by people of all beliefs and cultures living in the country?
It seems you really believe that the war in Syria started by a peaceful revolution.

We are done here, since you seem to either have no desire or no will to engage in any kind of honest and productive discusison. This is sad, especially since you could have provided some interesting and valuable insight into the complicated situation in a part of the world that has quite an impact even on europeans.

1) What part of my question about al-Assad was so hard to understand? Even if English would be your 3rd language?
2) What the fuck has your question about constitution to do with the topic(s) at all? Are you always answering questions with counter questions? Thats rude and dishonest.
3) Again you assume my position without having any comment from my side about the issue at hand (peaceful revolution). If you already know what i know and what i think, there is no point in further conversation with you.

You are either too stupid or too ignorant to talk to and i am not going to sift through your big paragraph and filter out whats relevant or not to the conversation i intended. I have better things to do with my time.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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15-07-2016, 03:16 AM
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
Kerim - I know you're trying to convey a lot of information in your posts, and working through a language barrier, but that was a huge paragraph that was very difficult to follow, especially since you make a lot of accusations in it from sources which seem to be from possible sources of propaganda and false information. Everyone has an agenda.

I strongly doubt the United States has the ability to coordinate with other nations to the degree it would take to pull off what you are claiming we did, especially given our current political situation (where one side would turn on the other in the event of such a conspiracy), and our present animosity toward Russia, who is the real major player in that area.

There are just too many links in the chain that have to be perfectly maintained for what you claim to be possible. I think the true answer is much more nuanced and complex.

What I can tell you as an American is that I am sorry for what is happening to your home, and that many of us here are among the best-informed Americans you're likely to meet, skeptics to the core (who do not simply believe what we are told), so I would ask that you not keep treating us as if we automatically have something against you, or that we believe our propaganda outlets.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-07-2016, 03:30 AM
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
(14-07-2016 03:23 PM)KerimF Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 12:58 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  What the heck did I just read?

Seriously KerimF, try and keep the language simple and perhaps provide some corroborating information/links?

Sorry, 'Peebothuhul', since you didn't even notice my name and you keep referring to KerimF instead, I wonder if you are really serious in reading my posts.

By the way, didn't you hear of Galileo? I am not like him Wink
I mean, I am not here to convince anyone about anything.

You ask me about links to support what I try saying. I bet you will not find even one link doing this if you search the entire web Sad Perhaps, by a mere coincidence, little parts of what I present may be found in different places on the globe Wink

At work.

Am on my phone, tapping away with one finger.

Your post headings are KerimF. Mine are Peebothuhul. I use your post headings so everyone knows who I am posting to etc.

You have been repeatedly told your language use is not very good. I've asked you to simplify your word use so that we might have understanding.

Others have asked direct questions seeking direct answers.

Having had face to face conversations with folks in similar circumstances I will say to yourself as I've said to them:

I understand that English is NOT your native language.

Don't try being 'Grand' in what it is you're trying to explain.

It does not work and ends up being annoying and amounts to much time being wasted.

Please, try and be as simple and direct in your word use. The sentence structure etc we can work out as we go along.

Hoping for a simpler and direct reply.
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15-07-2016, 04:55 AM
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
(15-07-2016 12:02 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  1) What part of my question about al-Assad was so hard to understand? Even if English would be your 3rd language?

Sorry, I personally don't believe in the existence of supermen, good or evil. Also I am not the one who is interested to stop a theist to believe in a supernatural dictator (called god) or to stop anyone in the world to believe that evil supermen (called dictators) do exist in reality too.
I mean how I could answer you about a character you insist being real while it exists in movies and series only.
On the other hand, the fruits of the 9/11 attacks show very clearly (for those who look for the truth, mainly after about 15 years) how all systems in the world (from the Far-West to the Far-East, including the Syrian one) are involved in the creation of the International Endless series "War on Terror", also in justifying the terrorist attacks in its subsequent daily episodes since 9/11/2001.

The answer to your question is not simple at all as you may think. For example, the actual Syrian president was not eliminated like many other ones (in the so-called Arab Spring) because the most powerful/rich families in the world (mainly those living in USA) can control the Syrian army and people by/via him since he is loved and trusted by almost all Syrians even after living 5 years of the 9/11 Terror War which is asking for his head (as requested first by Obama on TV in March 2011, after Obama played a similar scenario for Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Yemen).
I hope you know now why the war map doesn't change a lot in Syria (mainly in my city Aleppo since March 2012) because all sides made in conflict are controlled from the same headquarters whose main role is to keep the military strengths of the main conflicting sides in almost perfect balance.

Quote:2) What the fuck has your question about constitution to do with the topic(s) at all? Are you always answering questions with counter questions? Thats rude and dishonest.

Sorry, even in movies, I didn't hear yet of a dictator who rules his people based on a constitution. Did you?!
Truth be said, the only real dictator, I personally witnessed, was the US president G. Bush right after the second plane hit the second WTC tower (as he predicted in his earlier short speech). On that tragic day, the White House won the Jackpot; including the USA Presidential Veto Right (the most powerful legitimate sword over all American necks). Only the USA Law gives the right to the US president to play the role of a real dictator anytime the American people is convinced that their nation is under attack (unfortunately, on 9/11/2001, this needed sacrificing thousands of innocent citizens in NYC and some actors accusing themselves as being the idiot/ignorant criminal brains behind these attacks... besides the TV scenes of some dancers which had also a great effect in convincing the American people).

Quote:3) Again you assume my position without having any comment from my side about the issue at hand (peaceful revolution). If you already know what i know and what i think, there is no point in further conversation with you.

It seems you forget your first statement about Syria. It was about... "al-Assad dictatorship".
Should I be a prophet to know you were also told that the next step in removing this dictator started with a peaceful revolution (in Daraa town at the south of Syria where, now, Al-Qaeda and the Israeli Army are on one side against the Syrian people).


Quote:You are either too stupid or too ignorant to talk to and i am not going to sift through your big paragraph and filter out whats relevant or not to the conversation i intended. I have better things to do with my time.

Since I look to you as stupid or ignorant, I think, also for your sanity and safety, you better hear your trusted sources only. After all, theists also do the same anytime they need knowing better the Word/Will of their gods.

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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15-07-2016, 05:13 AM
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
(14-07-2016 10:49 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  But a good portion of billions fall into the lines of not giving a shit about what is happening and dont proclaim much else.

You got it Wink

For example, we all witnessed what the millions in America did after their 'elected' president played the naïve ignorant kid and sent his brave troops to save the world's peace in Iraq.
These millions elected him for another 4 years!

I mean the only explanation of this example dilemma is what you pointed out as "not giving a shit" Big Grin

Kerim

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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15-07-2016, 05:17 AM
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
At work.

KerimF? Are you going to actually engage in proper conversation or are you using the forum for something more social?

There are different/better areas of the forum for that.
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15-07-2016, 06:16 AM
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
(14-07-2016 11:40 AM)julep Wrote:  There's no first world consensus on what to do to solve the global problems you mention, and I don't know why you are writing as if such a consensus exists. Further, while there's a lot of money in politics, it is not pushing a unified agenda. At most, some of the moneyed and powerful are hoping to move every country in which they operate more into oligarchy. I'm not in favor of that, as it would increase the level of misery for most, and I tend to ally politically with attempts to rein in money's influence in politics and government. Even if the would-be oligarchs succeed, though, they will still be working at cross-purposes with one another and undercutting each other's efforts.

I don't present here what I like or dislike... I just present the world as it is.

In brief, money and power are very close twins. One cannot live for long without the other.
But these two twins may have different levels.
For example, "big" money needs its twin to be a "big" power too.
In general, for a certain money to survive, power of the same level is needed to protect it.

On the other hand, these twins (forces and banks) of a certain group/camp may grow or diminish. This depends on how clever money and power are invested to support or attack other groups/camps.

For example, when Obama (presenting the power of the American Elite) was instructed to open the Terror War Show in Syria in March 2011, more millions of tons of explosives were sold (money revenue) for its destruction. This clever investment let the twins of the American Elite growing a bit more. But the great investment will start in the next decade when the "Europe Spring" will be launched in one European country into another Sad I am afraid that more investments were scheduled for the coming episodes of the International Endless series "War on Terror" to also destroy countries from inside in the Far-East as well Sad
I think most here already heard Obama warning the world that the greatest nations will not be able defeating the International Terrorist Army (groups) for 'many' decades from now. Obama is not a prophet, he just know what I know.

Anyway, I don't expect anyone to believe what I say here... Only when the re-destruction of Europe (Europe Spring) will start a few years later, some of you will likely remember a certain person named Kerim Tongue

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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15-07-2016, 06:20 AM
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
At work.

Okay, I'm out.

Not going to read any more incoherant posts.

Will look in and see if KerimF actually starts responding to people.
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15-07-2016, 06:25 AM
RE: The modern god that exists even to Atheists
(14-07-2016 11:41 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 08:26 AM)KerimF Wrote:  I was told that in English the word point could also refer to the non-existent geometrical dot which is dimensionless by definition.

By the way, do you think an Atheist shouldn't be interested in geometry because it is based on a non-existent object... the point Big Grin

Because it's not. A point is not a non-existent thing, it is not a thing at all. It is a precise location which exists but which can never be fully represented to infinite precision.

Yes, as you said, it is not a thing at all (by definition).
But because its concept could be used to locate existing things, I accepted it to be part in my reality... though it is not a thing at all Big Grin

Facts that don't need evidences:
Sheep for milk live in peace because it is the will of their rich owners.
Dogs obeying rich masters deserve much better food and shelters than free dogs do.
Whoever has ears will hear.
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