The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
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02-09-2012, 04:23 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(01-09-2012 09:38 PM)Thomas Wrote:  What we are watching is a profound political change in the US to a much more conservative position. It's not the republicans making this change. They've always been there. It's the middle. They have turned their backs on social spending. They want the government smaller. They want the republicans to run the show.

I think people don't want the Democrats running things.
They don't actually want the Republicans running things, and they will find that out with a vengeance.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-09-2012, 05:16 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
Republicans, as a rule, are uneducated extremists rooted in a fundamental Christian ideology. Currently, Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan are simply relying on anti-Obama votes rather than pro-Mitt Romney votes. They have nothing to criticize in Obama's policies. The Affordable Care Act is almost identical to Willard's healthcare system in Massachusetts. He has no economic proposition to speak of, rendering him helpless in an economic debate. Overall, one of the saddest candidates I have seen.

Obama may not be great, but he is alright. Coming from a background with no money, you don't get into Harvard for no reason. He may not have done much, but with a Republican-dominant congress, can you really do anything as a Democrat?

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02-09-2012, 05:53 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 03:31 AM)Jeff Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 07:38 PM)Dom Wrote:  When is anyone ever going to realize that trickle down doesn't work?

Who is advocating for trickle-down?

Are you serious?

The Republican Party is! Taxing the crap out of the middle class and giving the money to the well to do and big companies IS pure trickle down. The idea is that the money trickles down to the peons who will perform services for the aforementioned.

If they want to support business that will actually spend their money in the US, they need to exclude large companies and let the cut benefit the small guys who hire in town. Then it will actually trickle down.

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02-09-2012, 08:35 AM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2012 08:39 AM by Diablo666.)
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(01-09-2012 06:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  It bugs me that they want to criminalize online gambling. I'm not much of a gambler, but I like a nice poker game here and there.

Who the heck are they to tell me I can't do what I want with my own money in my own private home. It's my money, I worked hard to get it, and if I want to match wits with someone and bet on it, it's my business and mine only.


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Bangin

Poker takes wits? I heard it was just dumb luck.

Sort of like when the so called amateur almost always wins in the world series of poker.


(02-09-2012 03:31 AM)Jeff Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 07:38 PM)Dom Wrote:  When is anyone ever going to realize that trickle down doesn't work?

Who is advocating for trickle-down?

ROFL! How can you support the republican party and not know this? You would have to be completely ignorant...ohhh....
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02-09-2012, 08:42 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 05:53 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(02-09-2012 03:31 AM)Jeff Wrote:  Who is advocating for trickle-down?

Are you serious?

The Republican Party is! Taxing the crap out of the middle class and giving the money to the well to do and big companies IS pure trickle down. The idea is that the money trickles down to the peons who will perform services for the aforementioned.

If they want to support business that will actually spend their money in the US, they need to exclude large companies and let the cut benefit the small guys who hire in town. Then it will actually trickle down.


So basically the small businesses (say under 50 employees, or under maybe 1 million a year in revenue)? It's the group I think should get money if anything. They're the ones that could use it, and the ones who would be (probably) more likely to expand and hire more people.
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02-09-2012, 10:10 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(01-09-2012 07:09 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 04:11 PM)cufflink Wrote:  *The blatant lying in Paul Ryan's speech.

You're relying on Politi-Fact as if it is unbiased. Think for yourself.

Nope, I didn't rely on PolitiFact. My primary source was FactCheck.org. As far as I can tell, they're the best respected and least biased of the fact checkers. The Wikipedia article on them opens with: "FactCheck.org is a non-partisan, nonprofit website that describes itself as a "'consumer advocate' for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics." It is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Pennsylvania, and is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation. FactCheck has won three Webby Awards in the Politics category, in 2008, 2010 and 2011."

FactCheck's conclusion on Ryan's speech: "Paul Ryan’s acceptance speech at the Republican convention contained several false claims and misleading statements." They went on to list and analyze five specific instances of this; the issue of the GM plant in Janesville was just one of the five.

As for PolitiFact, they've been criticized by the left just as much as by the right; that doesn't sound like evidence of consistent bias. On the other hand, a source you used in a related thread, Media Research Center, doesn't hide the fact they have an ax to grind: "The Media Research Center is proud to celebrate 25 years of holding the liberal media accountable for shamelessly advancing a left-wing agenda, distorting the truth, and vilifying the conservative movement."

Quote:Here's what Obama said:

"And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, it’s where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and that’s the future I’ll fight for as your president."

Doesn't it sound like he's saying that if he's elected, he'll work to keep the plant open for a long time?

Now to the (not really the point) issue of when the plant "closed."

The local paper, The News and the Gazette reported that the plant didn't close fully until April 2009. Here's a timeline:

June 2008: GM announces that the Janesville plant will stop production of medium-duty trucks by the end of 2009, and stop production of large SUVs such as the Chevy Tahoe and Suburban and the GMC Yukon in 2010 or sooner, depending on market demand.

December 23, 2008: SUV production ends, and more than 2,000 GM workers are laid off, according to the Gazette. Medium truck production continues.

January 2009, Obama takes office as President. The laid-off employees have been out of work for less than 30 days. The plant is still there, ready to go. Obama does nothing.

April 23, 2009: The plant's medium-duty assembly line, which produced an Isuzu line, closes, ending vehicle production at the plant and resulting in the loss of 57 production jobs, according to the Gazette.

GM then put the plant on standby, meaning it could reactivate the facility if it decides it needs to ramp up production.

Obama's in office, where is Obama's leadership to keep the plant here for another 100 years?

I agree with you that the question of when the plant closed, whether on Bush's watch or Obama's, or whether the plant is even permanently closed right now or in "stand by" mode, kind of like a computer, is not really the point. The point, rather, is that Ryan was using the incident to imply, "Obama promised that if elected, he'd keep the plant open. But the plant is closed. See? He lied to you!"

What a reasonable person would get out of Obama's statement is not that he said, "I promise you I will keep the plant open," but rather that he believed that with the right governmental assistance, the Janesville plant and others like it could retool and stay operational. But obviously there are a lot of unstated "ifs" here, not the least of which is whether GM wanted the plant to stay open. It was their decision to close the plant, not Obama's--because the plant mainly made SUVs, and the demand for SUVs is way down. What does Ryan want Obama to have done--dictate to GM, and if they don't agree, bring in the Feds to keep the doors open? Remember, he's a typical laissez-faire, hands-off-business Republican. He can't have it both ways.

Whenever there's a piece of bad economic news, the Repubs cry crocodile tears in public but privately do a little dance--because their main goal is not to fix the economy but to make sure Obama is a one-term president, and they know they can use the economy, fairly or not, as ammunition against him.

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02-09-2012, 10:39 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(01-09-2012 07:30 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 04:11 PM)cufflink Wrote:  *The reaction in the hall to this part of Romney's speech:
That united America will care for the poor and the sick, will honor and respect the elderly, and will give a helping hand to those in need. [NO APPLAUSE. As one commentator put it, you could hear crickets.]

Watch the video and think for yourself. Listen to the speech in context, starting at 36:33. It's true that there is no cheering after this line is delivered, but the two prior lines got applause because they address controversial issues, and Romney pauses to allow crowd cheering. The third line, about caring for the poor and sick, is not controversial, and Romney inflection doesn't suggest that it's a place to cheer, as he continues onto his next point.

Yup. He has had pretty good coaching in oratory tricks. The calm voice bits don't and won't get the cheers and then it's a build up (Blair-style) to get the cresendo.

There was a noticable lack of non-white faces in the audience, I thought.

But then, maybe there were many only they looked white under the glare of the Mormon's teeth.

Word on the Chinese-speaking streets over here is that they want Romney to get in, to turn the place into a theocracy and then the "decline and fall".

The next empire awaits and it is yellow.

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02-09-2012, 10:39 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 08:35 AM)Diablo666 Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 06:58 PM)Dom Wrote:  It bugs me that they want to criminalize online gambling. I'm not much of a gambler, but I like a nice poker game here and there.

Who the heck are they to tell me I can't do what I want with my own money in my own private home. It's my money, I worked hard to get it, and if I want to match wits with someone and bet on it, it's my business and mine only.


_)(&&^$@%&(*)&*(&^%$W$#W!!!!!


Bangin

Poker takes wits? I heard it was just dumb luck.

Sort of like when the so called amateur almost always wins in the world series of poker.

Poker is not gambling like slots or roulette. Poker is a game of skill. That is precisely why you have the same winners over and over in championships. Show me someone who wins the lottery 8 out of ten times he buys a ticket and I'll believe there is no skill in poker.

In championships of skill games such as chess and poker you will have champions who will beat out people with lesser skills over and over again. In gambling games like slots and roulette etc you will have one time winners.

Simple as that.

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02-09-2012, 11:01 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(01-09-2012 04:11 PM)cufflink Wrote:  What was the most disturbing/disgusting/creepy thing at the Republican convention?

Republicans. Dodgy



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There is a distinct fractional point when the Republican party cracked apart and split to include extreme hard liner Barry Goldwater in the 60s. This is when that degree of extremist view became accepted and eventually, became the norm. Until that time, a more moderate and even quite liberal Republican party view was included on the ticket. Currently, a moderate view seems all but excluded.

At least that is where I pin point the beginning of the extreme conservatism that the Republican party observes today. Other views may differ. Shy

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02-09-2012, 11:09 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 05:16 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Republicans, as a rule, are uneducated extremists rooted in a fundamental Christian ideology.

OK, thanks for clarifying that. I was afraid we might begin to use extreme classifications of one another.
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