The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
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02-09-2012, 05:00 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 11:01 AM)kim Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 04:11 PM)cufflink Wrote:  What was the most disturbing/disgusting/creepy thing at the Republican convention?

Republicans. Dodgy



*****

There is a distinct fractional point when the Republican party cracked apart and split to include extreme hard liner Barry Goldwater in the 60s. This is when that degree of extremist view became accepted and eventually, became the norm. Until that time, a more moderate and even quite liberal Republican party view was included on the ticket. Currently, a moderate view seems all but excluded.

At least that is where I pin point the beginning of the extreme conservatism that the Republican party observes today. Other views may differ. Shy

This Barry Goldwater?
Quote:Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.
-Said in November 1994, as quoted in John Dean, Conservatives Without Conscience (2006)

Quote:My faith in the future rests squarely on the belief that man, if he doesn't first destroy himself, will find new answers in the universe, new technologies, new disciplines, which will contribute to a vastly different and better world in the twenty-first century. Recalling what has happened in my short lifetime in the fields of communication and transportation and the life sciences, I marvel at the pessimists who tell us that we have reached the end of our productive capacity, who project a future of primarily dividing up what we now have and making do with less. To my mind the single essential element on which all discoveries will be dependent is human freedom.

He looks moderate by today's standards. No, the Republicans sold out under Reagan. He invited in the religious right and the trickle-down thieves.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-09-2012, 05:47 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 11:25 AM)Jeff Wrote:  Romney's been clear that he wants to create a business climate that is certain and favorable for big and small businesses to invest and expand, so as to grow the economy, increase the tax revenues and grow jobs / lower unemployment. If the economic environment is favorable for investors, then companies will use the famous $2 trillion dollars (that someone in this forum complained the companies were just sitting on) to invest, which will be an enormous economic stimulus, paid for by the private sector, not government, and much more likely to have a stimulative effect because it is being watched over by people trying to make money with it.

Cool, that's also my plan; maybe I should run for POTUS.

I though Mitt Romney's real economic/fiscal plan was to set shit on fire and pray for rain. Huh

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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02-09-2012, 07:09 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 01:02 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(02-09-2012 03:27 AM)Jeff Wrote:  Please provide me with the actual facts.
Thanks, at least now I know with what kind of person I am dealing with. Drinking Beverage

Yes, I'm the kind of person who asks for and evaluates facts.

All military operations cause unintentional civilian casualties. When legitimate military targets are quartered in close vicinity to civilians the casualty ratio will be high, even though compared to other types of military operations the number of civilian casualties will be low.

How else do you suggest that we defend ourselves?
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02-09-2012, 07:10 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 03:58 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Of course, you are hearing this from a political moderate.

No, you're a far left liberal.
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02-09-2012, 07:11 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 05:47 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  I though Mitt Romney's real economic/fiscal plan was to set shit on fire and pray for rain. Huh

No, but thanks for the input. We'll stick with the plan.
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02-09-2012, 07:18 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 11:52 AM)cufflink Wrote:  Oh c'mon, Jeff. Romney wasn't commenting on Obama's alleged hubris. Just look at his body language and his smug delivery. The message is, "Can you believe this guy? Can you believe he thinks the oceans and the 'planet' are important? WE know what's important, don't we--JOBS AND TAX BREAKS!" He was pandering to his audience, an audience that refuses to accept that the environment is something to worry about and only thinks about its own narrow interests.

You and I just see it differently. I agree that the reaction is "Can you believe this guy" but we disagree on what it's about.

I find that Republicans in general care deeply about the environment. They just don't accept at face value the tales of catastrophic doom told by the environmental activists.
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02-09-2012, 07:32 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 11:32 AM)cufflink Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 07:19 PM)Jeff Wrote:  You relied on the NY Times for this point. You do know that the NY Times is as far left as Fox News commentators are to the right, don't you?

I linked to an opinion piece in the NY Times by Frank Bruni, an out gay man and an eloquent writer whom I greatly respect. If he misstated any facts, you haven't pointed them out. And you haven't said what, if anything, Bruni asserts that you disagree with.

The data I provided from the CNN article contradicts "The complete exclusion of gays and lesbians" claim. That was my only issue.

(02-09-2012 11:32 AM)cufflink Wrote:  But all of that only supports the point Bruni was making. Behind the scenes the GOP throws a crumb or two to GLBT people; in the convention hall in front of the cameras, nothing. Virtually no mention of gay people by any of the speakers, although they bent over backwards to show how much they loved women and blacks and Latinos. And the official party platform goes out of its way to trash marriage equality. It's as if the Repubs said, "Oh, all right, all right, we'll let you onto our convention bus this time--but stay in the back, and stay down!"

The gay Republicans quoted in the article seem to think it was more than a crumb. Given the Republican platform it's obviously not going to be everything you want. But progress has been made, the party is more inclusive, and should be recognized for it.

(02-09-2012 11:32 AM)cufflink Wrote:  If the FYI was for me, thanks, but as a gay man who's been voting in American elections for about 50 years, I'm well aware of the Log Cabin Republicans. Wink

Thanks for letting me know, I wasn't aware of your background. The FYI was for whoever might need the info.

(02-09-2012 11:32 AM)cufflink Wrote:  My feelings about groups like the LCR and GOProud are changing--a little: still largely negative, but maybe not 100 percent so. I used to think of them as equivalent to Jewish Nazis; now they just make me scratch my head. When a group doesn't respect me, my own reaction is, "I'm outta here. I'll go someplace where I am respected." Why anyone would want to stick around and suck up abuse is hard for me to understand. Yet you have these gay Republicans, and you have Dignity, an organization for gay Catholics, Affirmation, a group of GLBT Mormons, etc. I guess on some level I have some grudging admiration for people who say, "Sorry, but we're not going anywhere. We're going to stay here and work for change." Not my style, but I can see some good in it.

I think it's unfair to say that Republicans don't respect gays. I believe the majority welcome gays in the party, but clearly getting the party to change it's platform on gay marriage won't be happening soon. They're too closely tied to the religious right wing of the party.

Not that you asked but I think it's a mistake for gays to reflexively disregard the republicans as their possible party affiliation. You make it too easy for the Democrats to take you for granted, and for the Republicans to ignore you.
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02-09-2012, 11:52 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 07:32 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Not that you asked but I think it's a mistake for gays to reflexively disregard the republicans as their possible party affiliation. You make it too easy for the Democrats to take you for granted, and for the Republicans to ignore you.

Clearly a number of gays and lesbians are taking your advice. GLBT people are a very diverse group.

Thanks for the discussion. I appreciate the civil tone of your responses.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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03-09-2012, 02:43 AM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2012 02:47 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(02-09-2012 07:10 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(02-09-2012 03:58 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Of course, you are hearing this from a political moderate.

No, you're a far left liberal.

Ha, I wish. I am still trying to figure out why retards try to view politics in black and white. Drinking Beverage

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03-09-2012, 06:54 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
The Republicans and Democrats agree on somewhere between 90% and 95% of all major issues. They claim they don't, and they throw rhetoric out like they don't, but the facts overwhelmingly show that they do. That's why as we transition from one party in leadership to the other, you see almost no change in the vast majority of policies. Foreign policy doesn't change, views on business and economics don't change, even tax codes change slightly.

Both parties are completely beholden to large corporate entities and Wall Street, both parties take similar actions on things that really impact the average citizen, and neither party is ever accountable. You get a handful of people on both sides of the aisle who actually do try to do the right thing and stick to principle but those people are really few and far between. And, the few of them that are out there - even when I don't necessarily agree with them on an issue - I do have a lot of respect for. Examples are Dr. Tom Coburn from Oklahoma on the right and Bernie Sanders from Vermont on the left. There is a lot I disagree with from both of them (Sanders is an admitted socialist for pete's sake) but I respect the fact they seem to act out of conviction as opposed to who is paying for their campaigns. Sadly, they are really the minority.

To me, the most disturbing thing about the Republican convention was that, despite all the rhetoric, they aren't going to do anything that changes things in the best interest of the American public.

And, neither are the Democrats.

What always perplexes me is people who grab on to one party or the other and get fervently behind them, as if they have your best interest at heart. They don't. And they won't. Unless, of course, you can start contributing some big bucks to their campaigns.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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