The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
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03-09-2012, 09:04 PM (This post was last modified: 03-09-2012 10:26 PM by Diablo666.)
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
BryanS you like many others in this sad country are terribly informed....

Democrats don't want to tax the middle class
Obama hasn't increased the size of the govt, and in fact the # of public jobs has decreased.

Paul Ryan statistics, those are numbers you can trust!!! How about something more realistic.
Like 90% of the wealth is in the hands of 1%.
Half of American households own 1% of the wealth.
64% of Bankruptcies in the US occur due to medical expenses, up from 8% in 1981.
Those are real statistics, and have real meaning; not some political fluff BS you saw in a TV ad.

The repubs always say they want to cut spending, yet they don't cut anything that matters. Democrats say they want to tax the rich, and fix tax loopholes, but they never do it. So which party is right? Both of them. But like I said, its just pillow talk. They don't actually want to change those things. They like having a defense budget, aka corp welfare, that rivals the rest of the world combined. They like the tax loopholes and breaks for the rich, cuz guess what...THEY ARE RICH.
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03-09-2012, 09:49 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(03-09-2012 09:04 PM)Diablo666 Wrote:  BryanS you like many others in this sad country are terribly informed....

Democrats don't want to tax the middle class
Obama hasn't increased the size of the govt, and in fact the # of public jobs has decreased.

Paul Ryan statistics, those are numbers you can trust!!! How about something more realistic.
Like 90% of the wealth is in the hands of 1%.
Half of American households own 1% of the wealth.
64% of Bankruptcies in the US occur due to medical expenses, up from 8% in 1981.
Those are real statistics, and have real mean. Not some political fluff BS you saw in a TV ad.

The repubs always say they want to cut spending, yet they don't cut anything that matters. Democrats say they want to tax the rich, and fix tax loopholes, but they never do it. So which party is right? Both of them. But like I said, its just pillow talk. They don't actually want to change those things. They like having a defense budget, aka corp welfare, that rivals the rest of the world combined. They like the tax loopholes and breaks for the rich, cuz guess what...THEY ARE RICH.


As a fiscal conservative, I have to trot out Reagan to quote him saying "the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant. It is that they know so many things that just aren't so"

The only dispute Politifact had was not with the actual facts/numbers quoted by Ryan. As they acknowledge, he could have picked different years even more in favor of his point:

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/stat...uld-only-/

Quote:The 2009 data, which came out in summer 2011, is the latest available.

It shows $727 billion in income reported by the million-and-up set in 2009, based on the adjusted gross income line on the federal tax return.

In the same year, you could have run the $3.5 trillion federal government for about 2.5 months on that income, according to our calculations and those of the Tax Foundation’s David Logan, an economist whose work Ryan cited.


So not only is Ryan's numbers true, he was more cautious in his claim than he needed to be. Politifact risibly rated Ryan's claim 'half true' because they make the ridiculous assertion that raising taxes on millionaires to 100% would cover the current annual deficits. Then, not only a few sentences earlier, they are half critical of the idea that 100% tax rates could possibly be achieved without slashing economic output.

Fact is, at current levels of spending, the rich will pay no more than 1/3 of the funds necessary even if taxed at 100%. That means the middle class gets shafted for the other 2/3 of the $3.5 trillion bill.

Fact is, the US already has one of the most progressive tax systems in the world. The only way the Dems can balance this budget without cutting spending is on the backs of the middle class.

Every sane person in politics today (both sides) knows that we need tax reform--our tax rates on businesses are the highest in the world, but the code is so convoluted and polluted that large corporations find ways to pay little to nothing. We need to lower rates, but cut out most deductions in a way that increases effective tax rates. And every sane person in politics knows we need to cut spending--quite a lot.
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04-09-2012, 07:39 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(03-09-2012 06:07 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(03-09-2012 08:54 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Jeff, you are either trolling or you are just mind-baffling provocative. Do you honestly think that the USA is defending itself in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Yes. What do you think they're doing?
Attacking them while breaking international laws?

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04-09-2012, 07:52 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(03-09-2012 06:06 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(03-09-2012 09:49 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  I guess that was actually one the most disturbing things about the GOP convention. This whole idea that they can run against Obama and the economy, while assuming that our country has been asleep for the last four years and won't question what their plan actually is. What might be even more disturbing is that they might actually have a correct analysis; you definitely have to give them two thumbs up on absolutely incredible politics.

As important as the plan, or perhaps more important, is the leadership to get it done. This is where Romney really shines and Obama is really weak. Every time you guys say "well, Obama would have done X but the Republicans blocked him", what you're really saying is that Obama doesn't have the leadership skills to put a coalition together around a deal, and get the votes he needs. Every President has to deal with a Congress that isn't interested in his reforms or actively wants to block them. Putting together a compromise deal is what politics is all about.

The elephant in the room is the underlying racism prevalent on the right. This prevents any rational compromise.

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04-09-2012, 10:43 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(03-09-2012 06:06 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(03-09-2012 09:49 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  I guess that was actually one the most disturbing things about the GOP convention. This whole idea that they can run against Obama and the economy, while assuming that our country has been asleep for the last four years and won't question what their plan actually is. What might be even more disturbing is that they might actually have a correct analysis; you definitely have to give them two thumbs up on absolutely incredible politics.

As important as the plan, or perhaps more important, is the leadership to get it done. This is where Romney really shines and Obama is really weak. Every time you guys say "well, Obama would have done X but the Republicans blocked him", what you're really saying is that Obama doesn't have the leadership skills to put a coalition together around a deal, and get the votes he needs. Every President has to deal with a Congress that isn't interested in his reforms or actively wants to block them. Putting together a compromise deal is what politics is all about.

I guess I stand correct; you weren't paying attention.

Barack Obama's accomplishments as a leader speak for themselves. If you weren't paying attention or chose not to recognize them, I guess you'll have fun reading about them in the history books, because even with the opposition, Barack Obama's presidency exemplified leadership.

You don't have to agree with his policies, but Barack Obama is one of the greatest leaders this country has ever had.

Republicans are afraid to run against Obama on anything but the economy, and that's just on the surface. They are basically only running on the fact that we just suffered the most catastrophic collapse of our financial sector and economy since the great depression.

If the unemployment numbers were invisible, or we had a country that understood economics, this wouldn't be a race. Romney can't hold a candle to Obama as a leader or on policy. Obama is like the greatest man on the planet running against a washed up used car salesman.

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04-09-2012, 01:43 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(04-09-2012 10:43 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  You don't have to agree with his policies, but Barack Obama is one of the greatest leaders this country has ever had.

Well, I certainly put him in the top 44. Beyond that, I think it's tough to really judge who fits where. A lot has to do with where you sit on the political spectrum, obviously. And, the passage of time is generally required to really evaluate the job someone has done. Take George H. Bush for example. A one term president who was ousted due to a collapsing economy and considered an abject failure as a President at the time he left office. 20 years later, though, he looks a whole lot better. Today, people recognize the way he handled the collapse of the Soviet Union, something that was by no means assured to be peaceful and relatively bloodless. Not many people could have managed that the way he did.

Historical judgements really need some time before a President can be evaluated. As for Obama's so-called "leadership", all that I can see he's done is compromise and capitulate. I'm not sure where he's actually done any leading. Even when he had a majority in both houses of Congress his first 2 years he pretty much had to negotiate and compromise to get anything done. I guess leadership is in the eye of the beholder.

(04-09-2012 10:43 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  Republicans are afraid to run against Obama on anything but the economy, and that's just on the surface. They are basically only running on the fact that we just suffered the most catastrophic collapse of our financial sector and economy since the great depression.

If the unemployment numbers were invisible, or we had a country that understood economics, this wouldn't be a race. Romney can't hold a candle to Obama as a leader or on policy. Obama is like the greatest man on the planet running against a washed up used car salesman.

This is just hilarious on so many levels. First, what else should the Republicans be running on if not the economy? The economy sucks. And, what does that mean, "if the unemployment numbers were invisible"? You mean if only people didn't know that millions of Americans were unemployed or underemployed, they would think the economy is ok? That's on par with representative Steve King's comments that he personally was not aware of a minor getting pregnant from sex with an adult or incest resulting in pregnancy. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

I don't care if you like Obama, I don't think he's any better or worse than any other option. But, comments that equate to "if only you paid attention to the things that mattered to me and not you, you'd see how right I am" do not have any real credibility.

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04-09-2012, 02:36 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(04-09-2012 10:43 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  Barack Obama's accomplishments as a leader speak for themselves. If you weren't paying attention or chose not to recognize them, I guess you'll have fun reading about them in the history books, because even with the opposition, Barack Obama's presidency exemplified leadership.

Please give me some examples.
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04-09-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(04-09-2012 07:52 AM)Chas Wrote:  The elephant in the room is the underlying racism prevalent on the right. This prevents any rational compromise.

Just curious about how you define "racism" Chas. Can I disagree with Obama without being racist? Obama said that he wants to fundamentally transform America, meaning that he wants to change a lot of things, and the people having their "oxes gored" by those changes are going to have a negative reaction. Isn't it possible that they dislike what he is trying to do, rather than the color of his skin? Does your world view allow for disagreement without racism?
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04-09-2012, 02:52 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(04-09-2012 07:39 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(03-09-2012 06:07 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Yes. What do you think they're doing?
Attacking them while breaking international laws?

I doubt that the drone strikes are breaking any international laws, but we won't know for sure until a case is made. However my doubt has to do with the age of the laws and the fact that they did not envision the scenario we face today, with asymmetric threats and warriors out of uniform. When those are taken into account, I don't believe a court will find the actions illegal.

In any event, the US won't stand for an international law to be a death sentence for americans, or any of our allies. The drones are very effective in targeting terror network personnel and will only increase in use.
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04-09-2012, 03:00 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?



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