The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
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05-09-2012, 01:48 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(04-09-2012 03:13 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(04-09-2012 02:52 PM)Jeff Wrote:  I doubt that the drone strikes are breaking any international laws, but we won't know for sure until a case is made. However my doubt has to do with the age of the laws and the fact that they did not envision the scenario we face today, with asymmetric threats and warriors out of uniform. When those are taken into account, I don't believe a court will find the actions illegal.

In any event, the US won't stand for an international law to be a death sentence for americans, or any of our allies. The drones are very effective in targeting terror network personnel and will only increase in use.

We've been fighting wars similar to what we are fighting today for over twenty years.

The topic of discussion is the international legality of weaponized drones. I don't have a date but I believe their use started in the last 10 years or so.
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05-09-2012, 01:53 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(05-09-2012 01:20 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I wasn't talking solely about the drone strikes, but about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan in general.

We were talking about the legality of drone strikes. Now you want to broaden it to the legality of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's fine. Why do you think those are illegal? I'll need something more than a link to a wikipedia article to evaluate your claim.

(04-09-2012 02:52 PM)Jeff Wrote:  In any event, the US won't stand for an international law to be a death sentence for americans, or any of our allies. The drones are very effective in targeting terror network personnel and will only increase in use.
How is this relevant to the discussion?
[/quote]

It's the context for the discussion of drone use.
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05-09-2012, 01:53 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(05-09-2012 01:48 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(04-09-2012 03:13 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  We've been fighting wars similar to what we are fighting today for over twenty years.

The topic of discussion is the international legality of weaponized drones. I don't have a date but I believe their use started in the last 10 years or so.

In the 1980s, Iran used a simple UAV capable of holding six RPG-7 rounds in combat in the Iran-Iraq War.
This was the world's first combat application of an UCAV.

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05-09-2012, 03:01 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
They were developed by Israel in 1980.

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05-09-2012, 03:08 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(05-09-2012 03:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  They were developed by Israel in 1980.

When did the US start using them in Afghanistan/Iraq? The laws are about 60 years old so I don't know what point you're driving at?
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05-09-2012, 03:13 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(05-09-2012 03:08 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 03:01 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  They were developed by Israel in 1980.

When did the US start using them in Afghanistan/Iraq? The laws are about 60 years old so I don't know what point you're driving at?

To give you an idea of when UAVs were used, period, the first combat UAV was used in Vietnam by the U.S in the 1960s. The U.S supplied Israel with UAV technology. The first UAVs used by the U.S in the Middle East were deployed in 1990. Again, this isn't new.

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05-09-2012, 03:56 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(05-09-2012 03:13 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 03:08 PM)Jeff Wrote:  When did the US start using them in Afghanistan/Iraq? The laws are about 60 years old so I don't know what point you're driving at?

To give you an idea of when UAVs were used, period, the first combat UAV was used in Vietnam by the U.S in the 1960s. The U.S supplied Israel with UAV technology. The first UAVs used by the U.S in the Middle East were deployed in 1990. Again, this isn't new.

None of your data addresses the question of legality for the use of drones, which was the issue raised by Vosur, so still missing your point.
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05-09-2012, 04:36 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(05-09-2012 03:56 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 03:13 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  To give you an idea of when UAVs were used, period, the first combat UAV was used in Vietnam by the U.S in the 1960s. The U.S supplied Israel with UAV technology. The first UAVs used by the U.S in the Middle East were deployed in 1990. Again, this isn't new.

None of your data addresses the question of legality for the use of drones, which was the issue raised by Vosur, so still missing your point.

I simply stated that combat UAVs have been around for far more than 10 years, you disagreed with me. I showed proof.

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05-09-2012, 05:36 PM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(05-09-2012 04:36 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 03:56 PM)Jeff Wrote:  None of your data addresses the question of legality for the use of drones, which was the issue raised by Vosur, so still missing your point.

I simply stated that combat UAVs have been around for far more than 10 years, you disagreed with me. I showed proof.

No, you've been listing surveillance UAVs, not combat platforms. The type of combat drone that has raised the issue of illegality is the predator, which was first equipped with weapons in the early 2000s, so my statement that I believed they'd been around for about ten years is correct.
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06-09-2012, 07:54 AM
RE: The most disturbing thing at the Republican convention?
(05-09-2012 05:36 PM)Jeff Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 04:36 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I simply stated that combat UAVs have been around for far more than 10 years, you disagreed with me. I showed proof.

No, you've been listing surveillance UAVs, not combat platforms. The type of combat drone that has raised the issue of illegality is the predator, which was first equipped with weapons in the early 2000s, so my statement that I believed they'd been around for about ten years is correct.

The first combat drone was used in Vietnam during the 60s-70s. The Israelis and Afghans both used combat UAVs during the 80s. The U.S used weaponized drones in Desert Shield and Desert Storm (1990). Aggressive UAV units are not new.

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