The most repulsive comment, a theist has ever said.
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20-09-2011, 06:52 AM
RE: The most repulsive comment, a theist has ever said.

Can we get specific about a few things?

Firstly, I don't think anything the WBC does can be called racism. So calling their drivel hate speech on racist grounds seems wonky to me.

Secondly, saying that soldiers deserved to die isn't hate speech, it's a political statement. Political statements are 100% protected. I mean, saying it at the guy’s funeral is classless, but I don’t see how it’s hate speech.

Thirdly, I always found the flag burning thing interesting (this one is more than a statement than me asking for clarity). Fun fact: when a flag touches the ground, you're supposed to burn it. But in the States, Americans pledge allegiance to their flag and, by extension, to the republic for which it stands. So burning a flag is about the most <throws up in his mouth> "un-American" thing one can do. Now the question: isn't flag burning legal?

Fourthly, I imagine that their "God hates fags" drivel could qualify as hate speech. I can also see how it might just be a political statement. Can someone actually speak to what they're saying about homosexuals publically? Also, does anyone know if what they are saying actually constitutes a crime in the US (or in Canada)?

Fifthly, I agree with 17, saying they illustrate the vile nature of Christianity is like me saying that Bush illustrated the vile nature of all Americans.

Sixthotron, Filox, if you go to New York and scream out, "niggers should be killed," you're going to get stabbed quick, fast and in a hurry Big Grin Like really, that's pretty ill advised lol. But again, that is a different statement than saying that soldiers deserved to die.

Seventhesque, can anyone actually demonstrate HOW religious groups have greater freedom to spew crap than non-religious groups or is that just a baseless assertion like, mom loves you more?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

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21-09-2011, 02:04 AM (This post was last modified: 21-09-2011 02:10 AM by 17thknight.)
RE: The most repulsive comment, a theist has ever said.
(20-09-2011 03:46 AM)Filox Wrote:  @ 17thknight

Yes, freedom of speech is cool and super and all that, but there is a line between freedom of speech and being racist with offensive messages and that is the thing for the court to decide

That is the a very frightening thing you just said.

There is no line between offensive and free speech. What anyone says and believes is offensive to someone else. You realize how offensive a lot of what is said here is to theists? And you think a COURT should JAIL people for it? That's no different than someone in Saudi Arabia being jailed for saying God doesn't exist. It's not different than someone being jailed for saying they don't like something their government did.

You do not believe in free speech if you are unwilling to defend speech that you do not like. The popularity of what a person says has NOTHING to do with their right to say it.

Freedom of speech = EVERYTHING is allowed. Period.

(20-09-2011 03:46 AM)Filox Wrote:  . Because, as I have stated in my previous post (this is not the way I think, just an example) if I hate black people and I come to New York and start yelling on the street that all "niggers should be killed", that is no longer my freedom of speech, that is pure racism and hate speech, so that is something for me to pay by going to jail or paying a fine. Same is with them, they are way too hard and offensive in their "parades" for this to simply pass as a freedom of speech.
That IS your freedom of speech, though you might be stopped by the police if it looked like you were about to instigate a riot or get yourself killed. In these instances you are not being stopped because of what you are saying, you are being stopped to protect yourself and others from possible harm. That does not mean, however, that you do not have a right to say such things.
In fact, we allow things like that all the time.

We allow this speech, no matter how appalling, because we do not take away people's rights based on whether or not the government likes what they say. We do not take away people's rights just because it might be popular with a mob of people to do so.
Everyone has the right to say whatever they believe and no court, no man, no government may ever strip them of it. Not in America.

(20-09-2011 03:46 AM)Filox Wrote:  Further more, if you celebrate Christmas or if we write on this forum, it is not the same thing as going to military funerals and yelling how they (the dead) have got what they deserved. We on this forum are not pushing anything to anyone, this forum is for those who want to come here, WBC are not hidden or polite (as celebrating Christmas), they are very invasive and loud, so it is not the same thing.

I served 10 years in the military. I buried friends. I'll probably bury a lot more. What these people do is appalling to me in ways you cannot possibly understand and I hate them for it. You don't need to tell me that or rub my face in it. They've been to my home town, they've been to the funerals of people I know, and they've been to my college campus.

But it is LEGAL. And I would NEVER see them jailed for it. And as far as I'm concerned, I served to protect their rights as much as anyone else.

(20-09-2011 03:46 AM)Filox Wrote:  You may see this as their freedom of speech, but I see it as crossing the line between freedom of speech and racist hate speech. Now we are (again) back to hypocrisy of religions and governments, religions are more protected than non-religious people/groups.

ANY speech is free speech. Period. It doesn't matter if you like it or not. If you cannot defeat an idea with your own ideas, then your ideas do not deserve to win. The solution isn't to imprison, threaten, brutalize, torture, kill, maim, or ruin the people you are incapable of dealing with in a civil manner. If ideas are incapable of being freely expressed, they are incapable of being proved right or wrong.

You don't jail someone for saying something you don't like. Ever.

(20-09-2011 03:46 AM)Filox Wrote:  Oh yeah, and I know that walking on American flag is not freedom of speech, nor legal thing, if nothing else, they must be punished for that, that is not legal in any country. Or you think that is also freedom of speech?
What are you talking about? That is freedom of speech and is both legal and protected in America.


"The United States Supreme Court in Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), and reaffirmed in U.S. v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310 (1990), has ruled that due to the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, it is unconstitutional for a government (whether federal, state, or municipality) to prohibit the desecration of a flag, due to its status as "symbolic speech." However, content-neutral restrictions may still be imposed to regulate the time, place, and manner of such expression."'

What that all means is that it is legal to burn a flag (or do anything else you want to it) and that no one may stop you from doing so. They are allowed to control where and when you do it (so that you don't burn down a building, for instance).

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21-09-2011, 04:15 AM
RE: The most repulsive comment, a theist has ever said.
Fine, fine, freedom of speech won, you made your case, i surrender. Smile No really, you do have a point, but it still horrible to see them acting the way they are and that is all legal.

Concerning burning flags, it is not always legal, or at least it wasn't, that is why I thought it isn't legal.

I found this about flags...

So they can not decide yet, some try to ban it, others try to keep it legal as freedom of speech, but the fight still goes on.

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